This subject has been hashed out over and over on both OH2 and ECCIE many times. Providers wanting references, but won't give any, out-number their colleagues 2 to 1. OH2 has done a great service by listing that a hobbyist has been verified, but that doesn't seem to be enough for a lot of providers. It would be so easy for these two sites to set up a boxes on each hobbyist's bio that only providers can check. Those boxes can be LIKABLE, ASSHOLE, EASY TO PLEASE, HARD TO CUM. Then, no references would be needed from a guy who has been around. Get enough ASSHOLE checks and he may not be getting around anymore.

P411 is a no-go for most of us until they start taking on new members.