In Case of Blackout on Jan 1st?

[mathguy]

I think it’s much ado about nada. Like Y2K, Mayan calendar. Good analogies Loxly. More like last April, when BP and eccie went down. Panic ensued. OH2 stepped up and filled the gap...thank you CK. And eccie came back, at least a semi-sanitized version of it.

FOSTA/sesta was in effect on the day it was signed into law back in April. No reason to believe that Armageddon will happen on January 1.

This is all very true as well. See, the law is already in effect - it was on April 11th 2018 just as Loving said above. Nothing special happens on Jan 2019. No reason to believe some Y2K type thing is happening.

Really though the further issue is like I said before you cannot just shut them down in a "Y2K" type manner due to a bug or b/c a law enforces it. Most of the places that now operate (if they are smart) are not on american soil which means there is no jurisdiction for the US to shut the servers down. Even with a lengthy process working with foreign federal governments it would be extremely difficult. There is no way to "push a button" or even to block a section of IP's (the way we do with certain IP's like things from China or Russia or North Korea and so on to our major internet provider backbones in the US). I won't go into the details of why that's not possible but trust me when I tell you it's impossible from a technical perspective.

The real question becomes whether some, such as P411, this very site, Eccie, and others, will decide on their own to just fade away and shutdown over time due to "perceived pressure". That's possible. It's definitely possible.

Even with the updated SESTA/FOSTA language the issue is still somewhat murky and unclear with regard to Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (which provided immunity to website operators). Just take a look at a site like this one: CDS 230 Major Legal Acts. That link points you to major actions by many, many large corporations and well known proprietors of services that have been targeted for various reasons over the years. That's just a sampling by the way.

With regard to SESTA and the safe harbors act (section 230 CDA) amendment it reads as follows per the new federal legal statutes that took effect on April 11th 2018:

Congress finds the following:

(1) Section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 230) (as added by title V of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (Public Law 104–104; 110 Stat. 133) (commonly known as the “Communications Decency Act of 1996”)) was never intended to provide legal protection to websites that facilitate traffickers in advertising the sale of unlawful sex acts with sex trafficking victims.

That's just the bill text. You will find the actual amendments in Ch 5 of U.S.C 47 (broadly known as the communications decency act) under 2018-Subsec. (e)(5). Pub. L. 115–164 added par. (5).
US Constitutional Code Ch.5 of U.S.C 47 (search for "trafficking" and you will find the actual 2018 amendment wording at about the 2/7 entries under: e.5)

The main loophole is the underlined and bold portion I highlighted above in the bill text. And many freedom of information groups are fighting those items (such as the EFF).
Read about sex trafficking here: Wikipedia Sex Trafficking

Sex trafficking indicates a victim of sexual exploitation. For example, a minor/child, engaging in child pornography, or a non-minor sold into sex slavery, performing sexual services under duress, at the direction of a "pimp", drug/cartel ring, or someone forced into a slave type prostitution ring, etc...
In order to be "trafficked" you have to be the victim of sexual exploitation.

That's the biggest legal loophole in SESTA. However, it's not even a loophole IMO. Why? Because I believe the intent was simply to do exactly what I've said before: protect victims of sex trafficking and sexual exploitation. Backpage, for example, was a place that needed to go away (for all of those reasons). It was unsafe. And it was a hotbed for criminal rings and enterprises.

If you are a provider using any forum, or any medium for that matter, and you are not doing it as a result of someone ordering you, you are not forced into it under some form of slavery or as a result of being exploited with drugs, you are not a minor, you are not under any duress to perform sexual acts, etc... then you are *NOT* the target audience of this bill/law.


-mg

[Austin Ellen]

Thank you Mathguy,

If I were a teacher I'd give you an A+ on this explanation!

This is all very true as well. See, the law is already in effect - it was on April 11th 2018 just as Loving said above. Nothing special happens on Jan 2019. No reason to believe some Y2K type thing is happening.

Really though the further issue is like I said before you cannot just shut them down in a "Y2K" type manner due to a bug or b/c a law enforces it. Most of the places that now operate (if they are smart) are not on american soil which means there is no jurisdiction for the US to shut the servers down. Even with a lengthy process working with foreign federal governments it would be extremely difficult. There is no way to "push a button" or even to block a section of IP's (the way we do with certain IP's like things from China or Russia or North Korea and so on to our major internet provider backbones in the US). I won't go into the details of why that's not possible but trust me when I tell you it's impossible from a technical perspective.

The real question becomes whether some, such as P411, this very site, Eccie, and others, will decide on their own to just fade away and shutdown over time due to "perceived pressure". That's possible. It's definitely possible.

Even with the updated SESTA/FOSTA language the issue is still somewhat murky and unclear with regard to Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (which provided immunity to website operators). Just take a look at a site like this one: CDS 230 Major Legal Acts. That link points you to major actions by many, many large corporations and well known proprietors of services that have been targeted for various reasons over the years. That's just a sampling by the way.

With regard to SESTA and the safe harbors act (section 230 CDA) amendment it reads as follows per the new federal legal statutes that took effect on April 11th 2018:

Congress finds the following:

(1) Section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 230) (as added by title V of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (Public Law 104–104; 110 Stat. 133) (commonly known as the “Communications Decency Act of 1996”)) was never intended to provide legal protection to websites that facilitate traffickers in advertising the sale of unlawful sex acts with sex trafficking victims.

That's just the bill text. You will find the actual amendments in Ch 5 of U.S.C 47 (broadly known as the communications decency act) under 2018-Subsec. (e)(5). Pub. L. 115–164 added par. (5).
US Constitutional Code Ch.5 of U.S.C 47 (search for "trafficking" and you will find the actual 2018 amendment wording at about the 2/7 entries under: e.5)

The main loophole is the underlined and bold portion I highlighted above in the bill text. And many freedom of information groups are fighting those items (such as the EFF).
Read about sex trafficking here: Wikipedia Sex Trafficking

Sex trafficking indicates a victim of sexual exploitation. For example, a minor/child, engaging in child pornography, or a non-minor sold into sex slavery, performing sexual services under duress, at the direction of a "pimp", drug/cartel ring, or someone forced into a slave type prostitution ring, etc...
In order to be "trafficked" you have to be the victim of sexual exploitation.

That's the biggest legal loophole in SESTA. However, it's not even a loophole IMO. Why? Because I believe the intent was simply to do exactly what I've said before: protect victims of sex trafficking and sexual exploitation. Backpage, for example, was a place that needed to go away (for all of those reasons). It was unsafe. And it was a hotbed for criminal rings and enterprises.

If you are a provider using any forum, or any medium for that matter, and you are not doing it as a result of someone ordering you, you are not forced into it under some form of slavery or as a result of being exploited with drugs, you are not a minor, you are not under any duress to perform sexual acts, etc... then you are *NOT* the target audience of this bill/law.


-mg

[britttany_love]

The law of course has already been in effect however come janurary it will be more widely enforced. Thats why so many so many other escort boards have closed and have not come back or like TER it only allows those out of the usa to advertise. Craigslist shut down its personals, dating apps have gotten stricter, google started deleting content and nude photos off drive accounts, adult forums have been censored, banks and credit card companies have stopped processing payments on webcams sites and porn sites, banks have stopped allowing
Ladies in adult entertainment to have money direct deposited in their accounts and have even gone so far to close the account all together because they arent going to be liable for funds deposited for sex work. Hell even seeking arrangement is now only called seeking.com. P411 is not in the US and is in Canada but they sure have done a lot of clean up since the law was signed so clearly they are worried about something. Canada doesn't have the same laws as the US so why the strict changes?

Sesta/Fosta penalizes any websites that “promote or facilitate prostitution,” and allows authorities to pursue websites for “knowingly assisting, facilitating, or supporting sex trafficking. That leaves the board owners and those operating liable for content they are allowing to be posted.

So any site or other board platforms that are allowing prostitutes to advertise sex for money are in trouble. Review boards set it all in stone proof that so and so paid so and so to do x,y and z. The feds have always known about these sites and you better believe they are always trying to shut them down. This law now makes its a bigger deal and a harsher penalty up to a 10 year felony conviction. Eccie bailed when the laws first came out but made sure to capitalize on all the money the could before just dissappearing. I heard they took money for ad placements and bcd up until a day or two before they just shut down. I doubt most ever got a refund. I'm sure come janurary they will leave everyone high and dry and many others will close. Not many board owners are going to risk such a charge nor jail time to keep a board open. Eccie isnt making nearly the money they did before and this board doesnt make money so why would they care to stay if pressure is put on them. P411 hasn't taken in any new clients or providers since the law was signed so they even arent interested in making money. These sites don't have the time or money to police or monitor each and everything posted to their sites so they close to avoid being responsible for content posted which in the original law they werent responsible for.

[mathguy]

Yes, Brit, there is a larger target. No doubt of that. But it's definitely not without loopholes. Sesta as you quoted is not the USC code in Title 5. That quote is probably journalistic hyperbole. That's not a dig on you - I meant the journalists/analysts who posted it. No doubt they are trying to clamp down. Totally agree. But it's primarily due to sex trafficking, not regular sex working. Sex trafficking is not the same thing as sex working. They are two different things. But, yes, the way the boards work now you are correct there are problems (but SESTA isn't really what affects that).

The amendments to Title 5 are worded very differently. And being a victim of sex trafficking is very different than prostitution. Though, yes, "prostitution" is illegal. And for that reason I do agree the forums and review boards are done badly in their current form. I would have said that with or without SESTA. Frankly those laws don't impact that fact one bit any more than they did 3 or 10 years ago. The idea about analysts who report 2019 being more enforced is conjecture. They do that anytime any new law is passed. Any law. It's conjecture. It's law right now. The deal about the 10 years prison is just b/c that's the federal law for those crimes - it's not part of SESTA. And you still have to prove that someone is sexual exploited or trafficked. But, yes, you are right there are probably many who will be scared by it enough that they want to go away. I don't doubt that. However, there are a gazillion ways around it. Which I'm not going to discuss (and that should be for obvious reasons )

[Agent220]

Mathguy,

With the way this Congress voted as well as other celebrities chipped in to various amounts:

They will NOT distinguish prostitution from sex trafficking. Pay for sex is all evil in their mind regardless if it all agents are consenting adults.

[Bettie_mae]

Yes, Brit, there is a larger target. No doubt of that. But it's definitely not without loopholes. Sesta as you quoted is not the USC code in Title 5. That quote is probably journalistic hyperbole. That's not a dig on you - I meant the journalists/analysts who posted it. No doubt they are trying to clamp down. Totally agree. But it's primarily due to sex trafficking, not regular sex working. Sex trafficking is not the same thing as sex working. They are two different things. But, yes, the way the boards work now you are correct there are problems (but SESTA isn't really what affects that).

The amendments to Title 5 are worded very differently. And being a victim of sex trafficking is very different than prostitution. Though, yes, "prostitution" is illegal. And for that reason I do agree the forums and review boards are done badly in their current form. I would have said that with or without SESTA. Frankly those laws don't impact that fact one bit any more than they did 3 or 10 years ago. The idea about analysts who report 2019 being more enforced is conjecture. They do that anytime any new law is passed. Any law. It's conjecture. It's law right now. The deal about the 10 years prison is just b/c that's the federal law for those crimes - it's not part of SESTA. And you still have to prove that someone is sexual exploited or trafficked. But, yes, you are right there are probably many who will be scared by it enough that they want to go away. I don't doubt that. However, there are a gazillion ways around it. Which I'm not going to discuss (and that should be for obvious reasons )

I appreciate the information, Mathguy.

[Bettie_mae]

Well, thanks Nikki! I get that a lot

How about you can have sex with my male parts and my brain will just take the pleasure as well as the credit? I'm good with that!

I'm with NikkiFAmme on the brain sex. Lol Maybe a doubles? hahahahahahaha

[britttany_love]

Mathguy,

With the way this Congress voted as well as other celebrities chipped in to various amounts:

They will NOT distinguish prostitution from sex trafficking. Pay for sex is all evil in their mind regardless if it all agents are consenting adults.

Exactly!


I beg to differ math guy ;) . They made the laws to not only combat trafficking but to stop the sale of sex online..."prositution". In their eyes Trafficking=prostitution=forced sex=women/underage girls they want to shut all of it down. Yes sex work and trafficking are both different but the government doesn't see that difference. To them all ladies are forced into this. To them, boards that allow sex workers to post and advertise are the reason trafficking is a huge problem online. There have been groups and sex workers who have already tried to challenge the laws by telling them we arent all traffic or forced. They didnt give two shits. It's not like traffickers say right there in an ad "hey I'm underage and forced to do this." That's the point of going after any and all platforms that advertise. They don't know which ones are forced and which ones aren't so they just want to stop it all. They don't have time to meet up with every person posting so they go after it all as a whole and stop it from the bottom.

If you think Congress didn't also enact these two laws so they can go after sex workers you are mistaken. So many ****** boards that were around before the enactment immediately closed and have said they will not come back. Pther ones that are still around have censored what's allowed to be posted, have started age verifying, stopping nudity, no pricing/mention of services and so on. Why because their lawyers told them to clean their shit up or they were going to be in trouble. The rest didnt care to take the risk lm If they werent worried that they were a target they would have never closed.

These boards sell sex and illegal activities that happen to be a market that traffickers are a large part of they simply are not going to leave the boards and independents alone who are committing a crime to just go get traffickers. The want to stop the boards because in their eyes that stops it but it just pushes them underground. That's why they do stings all the time. Now they have a bigger reason and a bigger law to back them up.

[GeorgeDRII]

Always remember the 1st Amendment right. Any violations of your first Amendment will win a court case according to the ACLU. Privately owned websites are just that, private. If you put a warning label on the front page such as this site before you log in, then there's no reason for the government to infringe on your rights to the constitution.....that which I fought to protect for everybody in this country for 22 years.

Let's take a look at who the president is, hmmmm. Stormy Daniels had no case. Trump paid her according to her services rendered. The judge threw the case out and even ordered her to pay his attorney fees. Ouch! This all happened before he was elected. All I'm saying is all laws that are implemented by the Senate must adhere to the Constitution. Any persons or parties who feel a violation of their rights, may file a petition or as an individual go to court. I would say that everyone should read and know their rights. As far as courts go, ACLU is the best bet to get you through.

Oh how it reminds of the rap by Chuck D, "Fight the Power" he may have been going for one target audience, but it sure can be used for everyone who's rights in this country are being taken away. Right or wrong this site won't go down.

Plan on being here for awhile? Have a snickers! Oh and have back up communications.

By the way nikki. I'm saving your email

[Kendra_James]

When the black out first happened in April my first reaction was PANIC! Luckily business stayed pretty consistent with my regulars. I was and still am very grateful for that. I do not think a "blackout" will happen come the first but if it should all of my info is in my signature here on OH2. You can always subscribe to my email list on my site or follow me on switter or twitter. I would hate to lose contact with some of the newer friends I have met since this past Spring! I as the OP said do not initiate contact with my clients for any reason in case of a S/O or something. So if we do have another black out gentlemen my personal site will still be up and all of my info will remain the same!
I hate that any of us are even having to stress about the unknown. It takes the fun out of fucking sometimes for goodness sake. lol.

[ck1942]

Interesting pov's and info above.

However, one thing we do know right now is that no one knows what will defintely happen.

However, many websites, social media are already looking to what might happen as I saw this morning:

Tumblr will permanently ban adult content from its platform on Dec. 17, in a move that will eradicate porn-related communities on the platform and fundamentally alter how the service is used. The ban — which includes photos, videos, and GIFs of human genitalia, female-presenting nipples, and any media involving sex acts, including illustrations — comes just days after Tumblr was removed from Apple’s App Store over a child pornography incident. Exceptions include nude classical statues and political protests that feature nudity; the new guidelines exclude text, so erotica remains permitted. Users have a chance to appeal flagged content, but after Dec. 17, any explicit posts will be flagged and deleted by algorithms.

= = = =

imo, there's a time and place for "adult stuff" and if you are here, enjoy!

[Alana kay]

I have been pondering about the “blackout” as well.
Some say it’s true & there are so many diff opinions it kind of would , as I see drive everyone into a panic. So I hope & believe that everyone should save the info some how or we should create a system since some of the providers are reference friendly it is particularly the same as if a hobbyist wanted another providers info.
But I can see where the diff opinions would come up about that as well. So if we stick together as some of us have been who knows, something positive may become of it.
I love this site & I appreciate it and many of my long time regulars and the ladies who are accountable for reference checks because that is important and plus the no drama part. So everyone I will not be changing my number or email. My info is in my signature as well and if anyone ladies included, would want to have my info for future reference checks or any info please save and feel free to contact me anytime.

Happy holidays.
Xoxo AK

[mathguy]

They will NOT distinguish prostitution from sex trafficking. Pay for sex is all evil in their mind regardless if it all agents are consenting adults.

Agent, you're probably right that they want to try. However there is a clear legal precedent and even our own constitution recognizes the difference between trafficking and voluntary sex work (though, yes, it remains illegal in the form of prostitution - but the point being is that it *is* different than trafficking). Just saying. It will be tough to prove otherwise. There are many other acts which clearly lay out what trafficking is and isn't. For example, Victims of Trafficking and Violence Protection Act of 2000. There are also other bills some of which didn't become law. However, trafficking is very clearly defined in popular culture, social media, and in legal precedent, as well as constitutional law.

Backpage, for example, was targeted b/c there was a large preponderance of data showing that vast numbers of girls, particularly of Latina origin, were being trafficked in TX and other southern states. In fact one smaller study showed that more girls in TX alone, in one single month, are trafficked, abducted, beaten, sold, slaved, made to do sex services, drugged, etc... than all the girls in an entire year that die from AIDS or homicides and suicides combined. Also, Backpage was not only targeted and taken down for sex trafficking. There was lots of general child labor and various forms "slave work".

This will affect the hobby. I'm not saying it won't. Yes, it affects websites. But the real target is gross negligence in allowing human and sex trafficking to occur. The senate and house bills that became law as SESTA/FOSTA even clearly state that in their "sense of congress" statement. This is just a natural evolution of the digital age and trying to decrease the rate at which human trafficking occurs as a result of the ease of digital commerce and communication.

Also, as George stated, there are various other issues like first amendment rights, freedom of speech groups, many digital revolution and advocacy groups are going to fight this, and it's not even close to over.

My main point though is I don't think those who lay a little more under the radar, make sure to keep any form of trafficking at bay, and tighten things up a great deal will likely ever come under major fire. The hot button issue is to keep trafficking at bay.

Note: Thank you for your service to the country George.

[mathguy]

However, many websites, social media are already looking to what might happen as I saw this morning:

Tumblr will permanently ban adult content from its platform on Dec. 17, in a move that will eradicate porn-related communities on the platform and fundamentally alter how the service is used. The ban — which includes photos, videos, and GIFs of human genitalia, female-presenting nipples, and any media involving sex acts, including illustrations — comes just days after Tumblr was removed from Apple’s App Store over a child pornography incident. Exceptions include nude classical statues and political protests that feature nudity; the new guidelines exclude text, so erotica remains permitted. Users have a chance to appeal flagged content, but after Dec. 17, any explicit posts will be flagged and deleted by algorithms.

Interesting find CK. Thanks for mentioning. However, I would even point on this one to the child porn incident where the app was removed from the Apple store in connection to a child pornography case. See, again, it's mostly about trafficking or child pornography or other minor related sexual acts which have become a huge epidemic as a result of our digital age where human trafficking and child porn have become pervasive.

[GeorgeDRII]

Well too all interested you can save my email it's: grouska2003@yahoo.com and my cell number is 907-903-6347. Some ladies here already have my info. But for those in Austin who might venture to San Antonio here it is. Stay safe and happy hobbying!