Discussion on GFE

[risn2theoccasion2]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I would like to get some feedback from guys and ladies on what constitutes a GFE experience.

I recently had a discussion with a lady who has had my repeat business concerning this subject. I brought up how I felt the level of GFE had declined significantly over a period of time. I would like to state at this point that I have always gifted above expectations.

Now granted, our first visit included dinner, talk time, cuddling, kissing and about an hour of BCD activities that I would certainly define as GFE. Altogether 3 hours. Subsequent visit have been mixed varying from 30 min to several hours, including dinner, depending on my situation at the time. Again, always above expectations for my gift. I won't mention off the clock items I have done out of the goodness of my heart.

So, to the point of my post. What constitutes GFE from a lady? Is the gift? Time spent? Does it diminish with time? Bringing the subject up seemed to cause contention.

What's is you take? Thanks!

[3daygetaway]

I feel for you; this is not in anyway mocking your situation. But… You are getting as real of a girlfriend experience as you could hope for! People’s affections wane as does their general mood, based on what else is going on in life. It sounds like the problem might be that you have developed too much of an intimate relationship with this person, where you need to have more of a business relationship. That is to say, you might be expecting real passion which grows over time, as yours has done, while her performance has not changed/kept pace with yours.

[risn2theoccasion2]

I understand your point of view. However, performance has changed over time. That was the point of my discussion. Based on your response, having a ATF that you see on a regular basis would be futile. I agree that this is a business transaction. Perhaps a better solution would be.....if services wane and you are not getting your moneys worth....move on. In my profession, if my business does not provide a consistent level of service, my customers leave. Consistency in delivering expectations is the key to loyal clients and customers. Smart providers understand this.

[CubanAva]

^could not have said it better myself.

To answer your questions as best possible, I would say that GFE is what you've described with keeping business, business. Making sure that the time spent in enjoyable, pleasurable and memorable but also somewhat meaningful. Good conversation is a must for GFE in my book and so is making a connection, however shallow it may be, it must be present. I try to keep any conversations about my personal life that arent joyous, to myself and that helps keep the energy positive and keeps from having that "too comfortable" feel so the business side isn't effected in any way.

A healthy balance of reality and fantasy is a must.

[risn2theoccasion2]

Thank you Ms Ava.

[Loxly]

Absence makes the hard on fonder. For both parties.

It's very easy to get caught up in a relationship when repeating often. I wish I could tell you a definitive time to break but I'm a victim of this as well. I'd guess that most providers aren't in a position to turn down cash so it can't be left to them. Maybe they make it too easy for you, too accommodating. When reality creeps into this fantasy world we play in things go to crap. Good luck to you.

[Lovinglifeinaustin]

OP, it sounds like you’re getting a real GFE experience. At first it’s great and exciting, but as time goes on, it deteriorates. You need a new GF.

Apologies for being a smart ass.

[risn2theoccasion2]

OP, it sounds like you’re getting a real GFE experience. At first it’s great and exciting, but as time goes on, it deteriorates. You need a new GF.

Apologies for being a smart ass.

No apologies needed. I concur. I probably need to return to my previous ATF. Services never wavered. Don't ask me why I switched. Can't really answer.

[mathguy]

So, to the point of my post. What constitutes GFE from a lady? Is the gift? Time spent? Does it diminish with time? Bringing the subject up seemed to cause contention.

What's is you take? Thanks!

This is a super interesting topic for me b/c I only care for a near true GFE experience. That's super hard to find, even with girls that are extremely open in terms of activities allowed and that enjoy what they do, because GFE is more than just some mechanical activities. I don't care to see anyone that is not GFE. I don't like to see a girl "just to get off", "blow my load", etc... I can do that in the bathroom as I've said before. Barring a real girlfriend, a near girlfriend, a good fuck buddy, a provider that is insanely good, or a provider which has become insanely good due to developing chemistry, it's damn near impossible to get what I consider "GFE". Unless you are a super good actress. I admit that exists too, and that's great for the purposes of IOP, if one can pull it off, but a girl needs to be pretty damn good to do it. Barring those things I can do it better myself, alone, and for free.

What I CAN'T do alone is have someone to touch, kiss, caress, fondle, talk to, to have passion with, chemistry, etc.... and someone to reciprocate those feelings or actions. Yes, of course it includes all the sexual touching and fucking as well but that's not the whole point. GFE is passion. It's not a menu. You can't really expect a GFE experience if the girl has all these "rules". Typically GFE is going to include what you would expect with a non-prudish RW girlfriend/wife; which usually means the obvious MPFS, intense DFK, DATY/DATO, FIV, BBBJ, Greek, etc.... I don't personally like Greek, my ex-wife and I used to try it out some when we got bored but I never really liked it and it would hurt her anyway (hard enough not to get her vagina sore with frequent vigorous sex much less her ass). I just don't like the idea of butt sex. It's kinda gross to me. Just my personal thing.

Anyway, the point is there is no GFE if the session lacks passion, reciprocation of touching, feeling, fondling, playing, talking, fucking (without "stupid" rules like "no kissing"). I don't care to have sex with anyone who won't do anything my ex-wife wouldn't have done. And when I say that, realize that my ex-wife was someone who was extremely attractive, had been with about 30 sex partners up to age 25 when we met, had been in a couple of threesomes (both MMF and FFM). You get the idea

If I don't know the girl, I don't like to see her without her seeing me first. I would like any girl to honestly tell me if she is attracted to me or at the very least if she would have an issue doing anything outside of what she would do with a RW boyfriend. The reason is b/c if she doesn't like me (just like if you show up and she is not the person in the pictures, or drastically older, or cracked out, or just isn't what you expected) then there is no chemistry and the session sucks. It's impossible to have GFE in that situation in my opinion.

Personally I think all girls should ask for pictures, at least a head shot and general description of the body, age, race, and whatever else they want, so they know if they are going to be able to be passionate (or at least give a superb impression of it). Why? Because you could pay me $100,000 dollars to have sex with someone. However, if a disgusting, ugly, absolutely unattractive (to me), or super overweight (to me, that's my thing, no offense to large BBW women), woman walks through the door there is no amount of money on this planet that can make me have passionate sex with her. I just can't. I don't expect that to be a single bit different for any girl. In fact, I expect it to be even more important for them b/c guys can at least detach themselves to a larger degree. Which is why I think it's crazy to not ask for some details, a picture, a description.... something.

I've had some mind blowing sexual sessions with providers in the past. I'm 40 and have been dabbling in the hobby since about age 30. There are two providers in particular, and events we had, which are so seared into my brain that even my most erotic sexual sessions with my ex-wife, which were fucking grade A hot, nasty, and passionate to the extreme, don't even hold up to these providers and the trysts we had. In all of my sexual memories there are about 6-7 events which I still, ummm, "use" for self satisfaction. LOL. Only about 2 or 3 of those are with my second wife that I married at 25. The other 4-5 or so are with 3 different hobby providers I knew. THAT is GFE. THAT is difficult to find b/c you need the right chemistry.

As I said, some of the best sex in my life was with my second wife, she was a wild one, and fucking loved sex, especially with me . I was the first person to make her squirt or to make her have her first real orgasm at age 25. Our parts obviously just fit perfectly together. And our chemistry was electric. We had sex the first night we met. An hour after we met. I will never forget that night, she just reached into my shorts and grabbed my dick out of the blue (!). Then she goes, "mmm.... thank god.", with a big sigh of relief. She was not a size queen or anything even close but she said all the guys she was dating recently were small; I guess she was happy. LOL. Anyway my point is that as hot as that was, and as hot as some of our sex was over the years, there are a few hobby providers where the sex we had was so hot, so passionate, so real, so electric, the chemistry so dynamic, that even the best trysts with my wife can barely hold up (at best it's a super super close call).

If I ranked my absolute top 10 sexual memories and had to put them in order, which is very tough for me to do, they are all so close, it would be:

1. Provider X (1st occurrence)
2. Wife #2 (1st occurrence)
3. Provider Y (1st occurrence)
4. Provider X (2nd occurrence)
5. Provider Y (2nd occurrence)
6. Wife #2 (2nd occurrence)
7. Provider Y (3rd occurrence)
8. Provider X (3rd occurrence)
9. Wife #2 (3rd occurrence)
10. Provider X (4th occurrence) / Provider Z (1st occurrence) TIE (I can't decide and I simply have to include Provider Z )

THAT stuff there is GFE. GFE = passion. GFE = chemistry. GFE = fun. GFE = emotion. GFE does not equal a menu. No it doesn't have to be top 10 all time. That wasn't my point with the list. My point is that GFE is not a menu. GFE is a chemistry, a passion, a bond, a companionship, which happens to include a lot of sexual activities (obviously).

My opinion is that if you have seen this woman you mentioned many times and you feel a lack of passion or GFE then you may not have the chemistry that is needed. Or she doesn't like what she is doing anymore. I would move on to someone else if it continues to bother you or doesn't change.

[risn2theoccasion2]

mathguy. I think we are seeing some responses from hobbyist who are not connoisseurs of the GFE experience. Perhaps they only care for the physical pleasure, which is okay if that is their cup of tea.

[britttany_love]

I consider myself gfe with a touch of pse. I enjoy all of the gfe activities but enjoy some other activities that would be considered pse (DT, FF, CIM, COF, Dirty Talk, and light rough stuff like hair pulling etc.

I have always thought it was important for the gentlemen to express before the first meeting the things he enjoys or likes from a partner so everyone can be on the same page. I have asked so many guys this question and they all seem to not be able to answer truely what they enjoy and always seem to say I'm pretty vanilla. Like they can't tell me what really turns them on. Some people are very hard to read and I never want to try for something that arent into. Some guys dont like kissing or daty but still want the cuddling and the passion. Sometimes they leave certain activities to the SO as they find them more intimate with a partner.

I have had a few who expect gfe to mean bbfs sorry but that is not how it works atleast for me. You save that for your wife and girlfriends! I can give you the same experience with out uncovered fs. I love pleasing my partner and love it in return it shows that you see me as a partner and not just a service. I love bbbj I love seeing and feeling my partner experience the pleasures I'm giving him. I also love when he reciprocates with some daty. I love a guy who can take charge tell me how he wants me, what he wants me to do just as much as I will tell him to drop his pants and lay back and let me start with him. I love kissing but I do expect hygiene to be good, which unfortunately that is not always the case, I dont mind tongue but when you have excessive salivation or bite me etc it's a little bit of a turn off for me. GFE to me is not just activities.

To me gfe doesnt just happen with bcd activities it is the whole experience. Yes you can most definitely have GFE in the form of some great iop. GFE grows with multiple meeting not just within one date. Yes their is passion and fun but gfe is built. Through the laughs yall share, to the conversations, to the flow of the session, to the quick text on a birthday to the surprises that are offered (maybe a new toy, new lingerie, add a play partner, a special treat on your bday etc. These arent given on first dates as I like the passion etc to be earned. I love strange sex, meeting someone new and knowing nothing about them, but I also love sex with someone who I have gotten to know. Real passion and fun because I know what truly drives you crazy and what you can't get enough of. You know the same about me and what makes me weak in the knees.

I dont do many diners or dates out with my clients as I keep my private life very personal and they do the same. Many are married etc and I'm not really interested in a possible public awkward experience. I'm a gfe provider but I keep those activities for private bcd. I feel when you start going out to dinner, off the clock time etc you are then blurring the lines between a paid companion and dating. This is when things always go wrong, things get confused, feelings get hurt, signals are crossed and someone is left feeling like they have been played. Then you see some provider or hobbyist coming here to tell of some story how they caught feelings, helped some girl out but it didnt end right, the arrangement is not the same anymore etc.

If you are looking for a gf then you need to seek out a lady on a dating site, if you are looking for a more casual type situation with off the clock dinners etc and what not you seek a sugar baby. If you are looking for a girl who can be fun, show your a great time and knock your socks off without for the most part baggage or emotions you hire a professional. When you start crossing lines or getting to much in the feels your are forgetting this is a pay for play experience and nothing more. We have an amazing time for the time we are together and then we go our separate ways.

I've seen to many providers and hobbyists over the years who share to much stuff about one another, get to close, share to much time off the clock etc only to be burned in the end. Most the time the ladies expect guys to leave their wifes for them, want that happily ever after, guys who want to try to turn a ***** in to a house wife a d it all ends in disaster. Outing happens, lives get ruined and simply some read way into the relationship then they should. I never understand why we can't keep things fun and simple and not try to change the whole pay for play thing.

[Lovinglifeinaustin]

Britttany, thank you for your insights and wise words.

[mathguy]

I consider myself gfe with a touch of pse. I enjoy all of the gfe activities but enjoy some other activities that would be considered pse (DT, FF, CIM, COF, Dirty Talk, and light rough stuff like hair pulling etc.

I have always thought it was important for the gentlemen to express before the first meeting the things he enjoys or likes from a partner so everyone can be on the same page. I have asked so many guys this question and they all seem to not be able to answer truely what they enjoy and always seem to say I'm pretty vanilla. Like they can't tell me what really turns them on. Some people are very hard to read and I never want to try for something that arent into. Some guys dont like kissing or daty but still want the cuddling and the passion. Sometimes they leave certain activities to the SO as they find them more intimate with a partner.

I have had a few who expect gfe to mean bbfs sorry but that is not how it works atleast for me. You save that for your wife and girlfriends! I can give you the same experience with out uncovered fs. I love pleasing my partner and love it in return it shows that you see me as a partner and not just a service. I love bbbj I love seeing and feeling my partner experience the pleasures I'm giving him. I also love when he reciprocates with some daty. I love a guy who can take charge tell me how he wants me, what he wants me to do just as much as I will tell him to drop his pants and lay back and let me start with him. I love kissing but I do expect hygiene to be good, which unfortunately that is not always the case, I dont mind tongue but when you have excessive salivation or bite me etc it's a little bit of a turn off for me. GFE to me is not just activities.

To me gfe doesnt just happen with bcd activities it is the whole experience. Yes you can most definitely have GFE in the form of some great iop. GFE grows with multiple meeting not just within one date. Yes their is passion and fun but gfe is built. Through the laughs yall share, to the conversations, to the flow of the session, to the quick text on a birthday to the surprises that are offered (maybe a new toy, new lingerie, add a play partner, a special treat on your bday etc. These arent given on first dates as I like the passion etc to be earned. I love strange sex, meeting someone new and knowing nothing about them, but I also love sex with someone who I have gotten to know. Real passion and fun because I know what truly drives you crazy and what you can't get enough of. You know the same about me and what makes me weak in the knees.

I dont do many diners or dates out with my clients as I keep my private life very personal and they do the same. Many are married etc and I'm not really interested in a possible public awkward experience. I'm a gfe provider but I keep those activities for private bcd. I feel when you start going out to dinner, off the clock time etc you are then blurring the lines between a paid companion and dating. This is when things always go wrong, things get confused, feelings get hurt, signals are crossed and someone is left feeling like they have been played. Then you see some provider or hobbyist coming here to tell of some story how they caught feelings, helped some girl out but it didnt end right, the arrangement is not the same anymore etc.

If you are looking for a gf then you need to seek out a lady on a dating site, if you are looking for a more casual type situation with off the clock dinners etc and what not you seek a sugar baby. If you are looking for a girl who can be fun, show your a great time and knock your socks off without for the most part baggage or emotions you hire a professional. When you start crossing lines or getting to much in the feels your are forgetting this is a pay for play experience and nothing more. We have an amazing time for the time we are together and then we go our separate ways.

I've seen to many providers and hobbyists over the years who share to much stuff about one another, get to close, share to much time off the clock etc only to be burned in the end. Most the time the ladies expect guys to leave their wifes for them, want that happily ever after, guys who want to try to turn a ***** in to a house wife a d it all ends in disaster. Outing happens, lives get ruined and simply some read way into the relationship then they should. I never understand why we can't keep things fun and simple and not try to change the whole pay for play thing.

Some really great points BL. I agree with most of what you said, particularly toward the end about the pay for play stuff. Guys have to be really careful not to get too attached. Girls do too. Like you said it can end up with the girl wanting a guy to leave his wife or a guy wanting to turn a provider into his gf/wife.

Most guys are married in the hobby. They play for various reasons. Its obvious why most are married. A married man doesn't have time to court a side gf, especially if he has kids at home too. Single guys don't need to, they can easily get it. Especially if you are good looking or have a good job. It's insanely easy if you have both . I was married while I did it too. It ruined my marriage. I'm single currently and I won't go into why I'm dabbling a smidge with the hobby again (long story and boring, plus a privacy issue). At any rate all guys and girls need to be careful of everything BL mentioned. Particularly about the feelings and relationship aspect. It can happen and work out but neither party should hold their breath for that. You are asking for heartbreak if you do. Just don't do it. Not unless you clearly understand and accept those risks.

My experiences which were so incredible were not due to the illusion of a relationship. Though I did have one with a particular provider. That's not the point though. Great sex is great sex. It requires chemistry. Passion. Attraction. Reciprocation. It's like I said there is no difference in the best sex I've had with my super sex nympho 2nd wife and the best sex I had with certain providers. The difference is that I knew, we knew, that it was just for the moment: pay for play. That's the only difference. If you can find that, or develop that with a girl, then you have found GFE.

I will admit that one provider did become very close and we saw each other off the clock. She was amazing. But no more so than the other couple I mentioned that were truly just pay for play but simply loved my dick and loved playing

The comment BL makes about bbfs is a good one. It doesn't have to include that but for some it will. This is a personal thing. I would only allow it myself with certain people. You need to feel safe and yes it's not something I'd advise people to casually do (even outside the hobby). I completely agree with BL. That being said, yes it was part of those top 10 encounters I listed, but I don't think it has to include that, nope. Btw #9 and #10/#11 on that list were covered and fucking unbelievable!

[Kitty bunny fuck]

True gfe is based on chemestry and a genuine connection - not how many positions you can do in an hour.

[Austin Ellen]

Yes!!! I am so GFE. GFE also does not have a "menu" - I hate that question. I'll disconnect at that point. I'm not Jack in the Box and I don't say Thank you drive thru please.

True gfe is based on chemestry and a genuine connection - not how many positions you can do in an hour.