Ida Wow

[Mr. Captain]

I am not familiar with all the legalities involved with solicitation but what would it matter if LE was watching or filming outside of a facility when they do not have eyes and ears inside? Is the concern the girls are trying to entrap you or that LE is filming and monitoring inside as well? If that is the case, wouldn’t just laying the tip down on the table at the beginning of the session be the best option? Maybe state something like “This is for you, I just want to make sure I get a real good rub! Just trying to figure out the best strategy to go about this to avoid any LE encounter. I would appreciate some suggestions. Thanks!

Basics of the law:
1. Any kind of touching of another persons private parts (including breasts), with the intent to arouse, for $, is a felony.
2. Making an offer to do #1 above is a felony.
3. Paying $ to have 2 people touch each other as in #1 above, but not touch you...and you don't touch them....is the same crime.
4. Courts have already ruled plenty times in the past, receiving #1 above, even if you were sneeky and didn't do #2, still violates both 1 and 2. So within the spa context, courts have already ruled against people who claimed they paid for a massage and the rest was consentual. Your payment for massage covers all activities whie in your session.

This is why I give massage and ask to watch them play for me. When I massage, I don't touch private parts, but get my hands and eyes on a (hopefully) lovely lady. By watching them play, no one touched another person's private parts. They only touched themselves which isn't mentioned in the law.

As for LE, we're discussing filming inside the spa. What rules govern how LE can film as part of any investigation? Also, can LE ethically allow a spa lady to keep working with her body as an informant for them? I think it's obvious if the woman was an undercover cop, you would never get any service. No lady cop would use her body that way for any kind of undercover work. The bust would be for solicitation.

I do know LE renting store fronts and advertising as a Spa is on the rise. I've read about it in AZ and north east Texas. But even those are no service, bust you in the room for solicitation, type stings. If you get any kind of service at all you're not likely to be busted that moment. But if LE cameras are legal inside and they can build a case with video evidence and bust you later? That's the question.

In Waco, 2018 or so, the cops didn't have cameras in the shop. But they busted one where the spa mamasan recorded her ladies to keep an eye on them. The cops seized the video footage and started rounding up the customers after.

So far, every spa bust I've heard about in Texas has only been cops who go undercover and then bust the workers. I haven't read about hobbyists getting busted at Spas unless LE rented a space and set up a fake spa. But with the new laws??? Who knows what's next.

[Mr. Captain]

I don't know shit about crap when it comes to the law, and am curious about this too. Hopefully somebody that has a clue will chime in.

"On March 26, Kraft's lawyers submitted a court filing, in which Kraft "waives arraignment, pleads not guilty to all charges and requests a jury trial."[123] On April 2, papers filed by Kraft's attorneys revealed that the hidden video cameras at the day spa had been installed when investigators entered the facility under the guise of a bomb threat in January.[124]....

On August 19, 2020, a Florida appeals court ruled that law enforcement violated Kraft's constitutional rights when obtaining certain video evidence, and that the video would not be admissible in court.[130] The following month, Florida prosecutors said they wouldn't appeal a court's decision on blocking the video, making it likely that the charges against him would be dropped.[131] On September 24, 2020, it was announced that the charges against Kraft had been dropped due to lack of sufficient evidence.[132] In January 2021, US District Judge Rodolfo A. Ruiz II from Florida ordered that video recordings of Kraft and other customers at Orchids of Asia be destroyed.[133]"
-From most people's source of information

So they put the cameras in using a bomb threat pretext. I suppose they wouldn't have been able to put the cameras in otherwise. Parallel construction?
And then the state appeals court decided that the his constitutional rights were violated in obtaining the evidence.

Since this was big news not that long ago, how could another LE agency justify wasting resources to do this again?

Maybe the entire reason the Orchid Spa incident happened is because another Billionaire wanted to embarrass Robert Kraft, Charles Kushner style.

Keep in mind with Kraft...florida law. Texas law will differ some. But the fact that it seems even in Florida the cameras might be illegal, is helpful news. I just don't know how aggressive Texas will be after passing the felony laws.

[stiffy3269]

The whole way someone is going to get busted is if there is a verbal negotiation to exchange money for sex. An undercover cop posing as a customer has to record either verbal or video proof a negotiation was made to bust the girl. Same goes for if LE was running a store front, undercover would need to document there was a negotiation.

Texas is a one party consent state when it comes to recording either audio or video. One person privy to that conversation has to have given consent. So if there is an undercover LE involved, they are the ones giving consent. If they have flipped a girl, then she is the one giving consent. But LE can’t and isn’t going to allow the crime to be completed to make a bust so they are not going to allow girls to complete the service for their evidence. LE also can’t go in and install a recording device and then leave because then they are recording people with no content from a person involved.

This is the reason many girls use hand gestures after you are already naked. They know who don’t have a hidden video camera on you, but don’t know if there is an audio recorder in your pile of clothes.

The best option is people share here what level of service they got for what. That way you walk in, set donation down, and they know and you know what level you will get without a word or gesture made.

It is not against the law to give a generous tip. It is not against the law for two people to decide to have sex. It is against the law to make a negotiation to have sex in exchange for money.

[stiffy3269]

I personally would be really leary of this place after I just looked up their address. They are right next the the freaking high school. That is part of a lot of new laws passed on 9/1/2021 that deal with prostitution is the crime is enhanced to the next higher level if it takes place within 1,000’ of a school. So LE always wants higher level offenses so this location would be the perfect one to target. Plus they could get a bunch of press for making arrests under the new laws.

[Mr. Captain]

The whole way someone is going to get busted is if there is a verbal negotiation to exchange money for sex.

First, let me say thanks. This is very helpful. I appreciate the thoughts on video. I've heard that before and this put it all together for me. It makes sense that's why we hear about spa workers being busted but haven't heard much about hobbyists getting busted at spas. Where as, hotel stings for hobbyists are a different story.

I have a questions about verbal negotiation. While I agree LE can bust for verbal negotiations, the law is clear a crime takes place when private parts are touched by another person with the intent to sexually arouse any person. I would think getting down to business without any verbal negotiation should still lead to the same end result as far as LE is concerned. So, is the whole issue here then, that 1. because LE can't blind record and 2. since they would never let a flipped girl or undercover go "all the way", then it's fairly safe to assume when someone gets to the point where people are touching each others privates for arrousal, it's a much safer bet LE isn't involved? Just by process of elimination? In other words, if we're touching each other, then it's probably not a flipped girl or an under cover LE and if it's not either of those then no one in the roome gave consent for recording soooooo, chances are pretty high the hobbyist would be safe? Correct?

But then about the school proximity, Aida is clearly going all the way. So while the law is more strict near a school, wouldn't the rule still apply? Aida is not flipped and not undercover LE either, so there shouldn't be any hidden recording? Right? What would be the fear then other than LE doing a raid while you're there and they catch you in the act?

Thanks again!

[Mr. Captain]

Texas is a one party consent state when it comes to recording either audio or video. One person privy to that conversation has to have given consent. So if there is an undercover LE involved, they are the ones giving consent. If they have flipped a girl, then she is the one giving consent.......LE also can’t go in and install a recording device and then leave because then they are recording people with no content from a person involved.

One question I forgot to ask in my reply below....I can't find anywhere it says the one party consent rule applies to LE investigators. Is there a difference between what people can do VS what LE can do?

[stiffy3269]

I don't know how to quote a comment in my comment so forgive me. LE has to follow the same rules of one party consent UNLESS they get a warrant signed by a judge to intercept communication. I don't think a judge would do it in these types of situations.

It is only illegal to touch another person's breasts, anus, or genitals if it is WITHOUT the other person's consent. That is Indecent Assault under Penal Code 22.012 and is a Class A Misdemeanor. Penetration of someone's mouth anus, or vagina WITHOUT their consent is Sexual Assault PC 22.011 and is a felony. So if you have rubbed on her butt or breasts and the cuffs haven't been slapped on you, then LE isn't involved. A female undercover isn't going to let you fondle her tits in hopes of getting you to make her an offer of money for sex. Anytime I have met a girl at a hotel, the second I walk in I look at her tits, raise my hand, and say "May I?" They say yes and I fondle their breast. They gave me consent, they let me do it so I know they are not a cop. I don't speak a word about what I want or about money.

About the school proximity. Yeah you are probably safe with Aida, I am just saying with all the AMP out there if there was one they might want to go after it would be one like that. Them sitting outside watching gives them no evidence. They could try to pull you over and rattle you, but they can't prove anything. They can only raid the place if they have a search warrant and they need evidence for that so they would have to send in an undercover officer to try to get a girl to agree to exchange money for sex. Then they would be able to arrest her and get a search warrant for the place.

[Mr. Captain]

Agreed, no LE will allow fondling. So if one is touching any privates then it's much safer to assume they aren't LE. But it is also illegal to iffer to touch peoples privates for $, with the intent to arouse, under all of the prostitution laws. And I understand, prostitution and solicitation laws are about offering the $ for services, not engaging in the acts. But I've read articles where courts have apparently considered the $ paid for the door fee at an amp as a solicitation offer if the people end up engaging in any acts. Sooo, I dunno.

But I guess that's why my question about video surveillance is important to me. If LE got a court order to hide cameras, (and Id still love to know how easy or difficult that is for them), but if, I'd assume they would video a lot of people who are still committing a felony....even if its as simple as touching breasts. The AMP worker may have consented, so it's not assault, but they consented for $, so It's still felony prostitution or solicitation. So how easy it is for LE to get that court order is a big deal for me. Let's face it, in every amp bust in my country over the last few years, it's been US agencies working with local LE to try and stop trafficking. I'd assume, for now, that's a big enough deal where the court orders may not be too difficult to get. But I just don't know enough about the law on court orders for video surveillance.

[Funintex]

Please make another thread for this le discussion.

[Oldphone14]

Anytime I have met a girl at a hotel, the second I walk in I look at her tits, raise my hand, and say "May I?"

Interesting strategy, they ever say no and you walk?

[Mr. Captain]

Please make another thread for this le discussion.

No one commented.

[Mokoa]

Well, I am commenting.

Take the LE discussion elsewhere. Put it in its own thread in the Coed forum.

[Mr. Captain]

It's already there

[kamisearch]

Then talk about it there.