hobby phones

[mathguy]

So the options and updates that _desta pointed out are not bad at all. I'd like to clarify certain things though (particularly with regard to my post - he did make many good points).

Signal actually can be used without the receiver needing the app, you can call users who don't have it, but, yes, you will not get full encryption (that's all). But you could still connect to TOR/ORBOT and get good network anonymity anyway. The encryption is not so much the issue for most people which is why I didn't bother to point out that small detail of Signal Private Messenger when calling people who don't have the app. Most people are more concerned about a wife, gf, kids, co-worker, friend, business associate, other family.... picking up their phone and seeing calls or texts openly being made with, shall we say, "questionable content"...hehe

As far as the privacy policies goes that's going to be hard to get around anyway just due to various federal as well as international laws (depending on locale). You simply aren't going to find many ways to bulletproof something that some form of LE (no particular agency) can't subpoena under any conditions whatsoever. But, see, that's why I pointed out that LE is the least of all concerns. In fact, I put it so low for *most* of these communities, like OH2, that I would call it inconsequential. If you really have LE situations or are the target of something like that you already have much bigger problems. That's why I didn't bother going on about privacy policies or researching which were best. You will not find many where there is zero data collection. It's very hard.

Yes, you can fully encrypt, make your traffic anonymous, its source, etc.. and hide essentially everything BUT to do it with that or precision and without mistakes is quite frankly far beyond the scope of any simple article or forum posting. However, again, you really don't need anything near *that* level to simply be anonymous and private to the point that family, friends, kids, wife, gf, parents, co-workers, anyone who picks up your phone b/c you left it somewhere, etc... will never know a thing about your hobby life/business. Nah.
They will have no way to know it's even on your phone, that it exists, or how to open it (even if somehow they found about it) so long as you were to follow my instructions (and the great tips & points desta added).

I agree with the GPS part too. That was a great tip btw if you don't want any family/friends to be able to look into that history! Once again, not really an issue regarding LE though. This is not why you have a hobby phone in the first place. You have it to hide it from your regular family & friends (whether you are a hobbyist or a provider). I'm going to keep pointing this out too, so just keep with me

I do not agree completely on the virtual phone/identity part. That's the one piece I'm in disagreement with. You do not need to use crypto-currency to achieve anonymity. The idea that cash is somehow a supreme form of protecting yourself is severely overrated (particularly considering all the many things that most people are probably doing wrong already that would sink that ship - IJS). But, no, you do not have to go with crypto-currency. And even if you really want to "buy something", whether it's a physical phone, or a virtual service (like some of the apps that require payment for calls/phone#), you can still do that anonymously anyway. Just go buy a Visa/MC prepaid/gift card with "cash" and then use the Visa/MC card to purchase whatever you need. Totally anonymous. Same same. The problem is buying cash only and feeling protected, considering how many other things the average person is going to get wrong, is far from a bulletproof way to stay protected. That goes for whether it was simply family/kids/friends you were concerned about seeing it and even more so for LE (but again I think that's bordering on laughable b/c the level of effort needed for LE to even get involved if you just follow *most* of what I said, or desta, would be so insane that you are already in BIG trouble if you have that issue). Forget about LE.

I agree with most all the the other tips and ideas desta pointed out, just don't really agree on that crypto-currency/cash comment.

I'm also not so worried about Google Voice as a "backup number" (used only to verify the number you are going to register with whatever voice/txt app you choose to use). Some apps don't require that you provide any data or registration. Signal is one of those IIRC (which is why it's very much a good choice & popular for anonymity). However, even if you chose Freedompop, for example, and needed to use GV to "validate" your new Freedompop number with a "real" number?
Simply make sure you connect via VPN/TOR node first, use a ProtonMail account, register your GV (or some other), and it's as good as completely anonymous now (with respect to using it only to validate a new number on your chosen private voice/text app). If you are worried about LE at that point, once again, you already have far too many issues and that ship is sunk anyway. You are done if it's gotten to that level or something is going on that you have that kind of heat being drawn. Oh, and never ever use the GV# again. It was only there to validate against a real number with your chosen voice/txt app. And, again, recapitulating, you would only register that number via a secure email (i.e. Protonmail) while connected to a TOR node (I prefer this over VPN) but you can also run VPN over TOR.

I also agree with desta, more or less, about his comment, shown here:
"In short:

If you're using your RW phone, best options are ORBOT & Signal for text/phone, Tor for Andriod, or ORFOX for web stuff. iOS users, just Signal for text/phone. Onion Browser for web based stuff.

Burner phone is the same. If you don't know how to set one up properly, just use ORBOT & Signal apps for text/phone. Tor for Andriod or ORFOX for web stuff."

The only part I don't fully agree with is the part in the original quote just below that section regarding crypto-currency & GV. However, I hope I gave plenty of info about why & how it *could* be problematic. I'll agree there. I'm just not really concerned about LE. That isn't a real issue for the basic "hobby community" hobbyist or provider & even were it? Most simply don't know enough to not make any mistakes and already screwed if it goes to that point. *shrug* :/


SUMMARY

I agree on the majority of what desta has said and added. Lots of really good advice. Especially the GPS thing. Also about TOR and some other items. Some stuff I'm a bit in disagreement on but this is mostly good stuff buddy

The main message that I'd like to impart is that LE is really not your biggest issue. If it get's that far then probably an easy 95%+ (if not closer to 98-99%+) simply have already made too many mistakes and they are going to get caught (whatever "caught" means in that LE context for that person). Though the relevance of that is low in these communities.

Mostly you use a hobby phone so that you keep business separate, private, so that people don't see your dealings (hobbyist or provider), kids, wife, friends, maybe even some providers husbands (??? heh, hey, it happens people), other family, and so on. This is all true to one degree or another for both hobbyist and providers.

So, follow my basic rules, also things that desta points out above and you are GTG! Though I have to keep mentioning that I really don't think you need to scrutinize privacy policies quite that deeply or worry about logs, etc... or LE too much. You are PLENTY covered in that case for all real world scenarios whether it's burner or virtual phone#. Either one.

I don't prefer the burner personally b/c it's too easy to misplace, what if you left it on the floor and wife picks it up (??), what if you leave it in a store on accident and they call your house or wife, or she goes back inside and the guy says, "oh ma'am I think your husband dropped this...." What if kids find it and say, "hey mom what's this?". Uh-oh! Boom. The virtual option has zero way she will every known it's even there (or any other family, kids, friends, yadda yadda). Best option IMO. The LE issues are just not significant enough and you would be screwed already either way whether burner vs virtual (either one - also for many of the reasons _desta pointed out too).
Just do the basic stuff we have both outlined and use either a burner phone or a virtual phone on your main phone (such as Signal or Freedom or whatever).

Use TOR (yes, desta made the right correction about ORBOT - smartphone version of TOR project for Android - that was my bad) and ORFOX for browsing online.

Nice write-up and additions desta. Thanks!

[Universal]

STOP
this is NOT a lecture class !!!!
Discussion is back & forth. Long, drawn out, encyclopedia dialogue is a dominating over-kill that doesn't give anyone a chance to Add anything to the discussion.

[mathguy]

Sawy Uni. Was my personal hope to get a sticky up as a tech guide (well start of one). That's why I began the first "guide" post after risn2 asked. I think it should be a best practices guide that whole community can use.
Sorry it got long between me & desta. Honestly this can be highly technical to do it all correctly, so it's hard to just say, "use this & do this".
Sorry luv. Just kinda needs to be a full fledged guide.

[Universal]

ohhh Dear !!!!Sticky Worthy
retract my comment
Beating myself up for not cheering on my STICKY WORTHY nerd