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Thread: Clients that want to "Hang Out as Friends", thoughts please

  1. #16
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    I think it can be done if both parties are mature enough to split the friendship and business aspects of the relationship. Care is needed on both sides. Guys need to frame the relationship just like they would have with a female colleague, just be a friend without sexual expectations because of what you do as a friend. But the option is there as a business transaction. But likewise you would not let a friend treat you like a doormat so the respect has to flow both ways. I would not say no to buying lunch or dinner for a regular provider, and have no expectations that it would result in a free session. Sometimes it’s fun to be with people you don’t normally see every day.

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  3. #18
    Verified Hobbyist BCD kerwil's Avatar
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    The only way I'd hang out with a provider is that she's at a social with other providers and hobbyists. That way we could both move around.

    Hanging out with a provider just because? No but I did have a 30min session turn into 2 hours once. And no we didn't fuck again(because I couldn't get back hard after being nutted out) and I wasn't charged for extra time.
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  4. #19
    Verified Hobbyist BCD canihitit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordicJag View Post
    So you expect free services, no matter what services those are, just because you are friends with someone? If you are friends with an Uber driver, do you expect free rides just because you are friends?

    I have a regular that I have become good friends with. We help each other out. We see each other in casual settings. However, we also have a business relationship. I do not expect sex outside of this business relationship. For this to change, the relationship would have to go to a different level, which neither of us wants at this time.

    I didn’t say anything close to this shit right here.

  5. #20
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordicJag View Post
    So you expect free services, no matter what services those are, just because you are friends with someone? If you are friends with an Uber driver, do you expect free rides just because you are friends?
    To play devil's advocate here and to put things in perspective let me point something out that displays my original postulate. Oh, btw, no I do not support the comment you were responding to Jag (I wanna be clear on that up front).

    So, about the Uber driver. You are right in certain scenarios it would be a bit ridiculous if we are talking about a superficial "friendship". However, what if these are real friends? What if the one friend who knows the Uber driver has fixed the Uber drivers car a few times? Maybe this person, man or woman, is a gear-head/mechanic and spent hours of their time working on that car to change oil, fix a transmission, swap spark plugs, etc.... Or what if the friend has been there for the other friend on numerous occasions as a shoulder to cry on? What if they have done other favors for them? All kinds of things. You name it. Given of their time to help their friend (the Uber driver, regardless of which one is the man or woman).

    Wouldn't you expect "something" in return as a friend of this person? How could you possibly be real friends otherwise? If they never did anything at all? No free ride, no listening to your problems, no loaning you money, no having drinks with you, no playing pool with you, no hanging out to watch a movie, no sex (*if* this was an opposite sex situation or romantic or FWB stuff was a possibility - obviously that is not *always* desired, not even by the man, for a variety of reasons). But nothing? Never? It doesn't have to be sex.

    Anyway, it does help illustrate my point that we all expect something in return for our time. It's just that with long time friends, marriages, romances, etc... we give them the benefit of the doubt, we take much more for granted, especially the longer and stronger that relationship has become (over a long time). We don't question their loyalty or that bond (whether it's truly friendly/platonic, romantic, marriage, brother/sister, etc). Make no mistake though, that relationship, romantic, opposite sex, platonic, or whatever would never even get that far if neither person scratched each other's back from time to time. This is the foundation for all human relationships. It's even the foundation for most animal relationships period (not just human).

    Oh, and, again, I'm not one bit saying that people in the hobby should do this (either gender). No no. But I also wouldn't call it prima facia unhealthy behavior. I've had it happen. Just as a couple girls above explained in their lives too. It just happened. There is nothing "wrong" with it. You just shouldn't expect it to happen. Too many men, like in the cautionary tale above by Lexie, end up having bad marriages, midlife crisis, etc... and they allow their sex time with a woman to romanticize the situation. This is absolutely the last thing you want to do. Trust me.



    This is all true even outside the hobby. People don't spend enough time getting to know each other and totally romanticize a sexual encounter (again, even outside this hobby) and they can't see clearly. This is normal. Do you know why? Well, I'll explain since I love to do that

    Oxytocin is traditionally thought of as a female hormone. It is not. Males produce it too. In fact a burst of it is released upon orgasm and ejaculation. Do you know what oxytocin is/does? Oxytocin is known as the love hormone for good reason. Touching someone can even release oxytocin. It's what allows a woman to bond with her baby during nursing. It's what allows us to have such strong feelings for a sexual partner. It even allows us to build normal social relationships. It's a powerful hormone involved in creating strong feelings and attractions toward someone. And the act of having sex causes both man and woman to release it in much larger quantities than normal. Have you ever been attracted to someone, whether you are a man or woman, like very attracted, and you meet them, or brush up against them where your skin touches, like your fingers, or your hands touch, maybe even someone at a store, like a cashier, and you get that chill up your spine (the good kind), hairs stand on end even if for just a split second, and you get the "goosies"?

    Without going into all the details of brain chemistry, dopamine, serotonin, etc... what do you think is responsible for that quick and pleasant feeling? Exactly. A mixture of oxytocin and a bunch of neurotransmitters stimulating your attraction to the other person and causing you to have that physical response (however brief it may be). Sex intensifies this a thousand fold. For both genders. This is why you should always make yourself do a reality check on the status of any "relationship" after sex is involved. IJS folks Hope this helps
    Last edited by mathguy; 08-13-2019 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Small edits, added an HR line for formatting
    -MG

  6. #21
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    I think I could do it.(DEPENDING ON CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES) I've never been one to mix business with pleasure. It's just who you "CLICK" with. I have had one FWB relationship that became something. Needless to say we remain friends and it didn't have anything to do with sex; but for the simple fact is I didn't know her as well as I thought. After doing this hobby thing more this year and getting to know people both on these sites, and BCD. I've become increasingly paranoid about any woman now I run into in the civilian world. I start to wonder if most of them are doing this and why they are actually single.
    DATY ENTHUSIAST

  7. #22
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy12 View Post
    I think I could do it.(DEPENDING ON CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES) I've never been one to mix business with pleasure. It's just who you "CLICK" with. I have had one FWB relationship that became something. Needless to say we remain friends and it didn't have anything to do with sex; but for the simple fact is I didn't know her as well as I thought. After doing this hobby thing more this year and getting to know people both on these sites, and BCD. I've become increasingly paranoid about any woman now I run into in the civilian world. I start to wonder if most of them are doing this and why they are actually single.
    Haha buddy. That last part was funny. Almost started laughing like for real...hehe I get what you're saying but let's put things in perspective right? Even with large hobby communities it's an extraordinarily miniscule fraction of overall women that are in the hobby

    In fact, going back to some of my posts on the economics of this industry it is that particular fact which allows this to be a lucrative "job". If even 15% of women out in the regular world, and it's very likely <1% as it stands, were to consider the hobby, the price, and therefore potential income, would plummet to abysmal levels.

    Why? Because once again anyone can have sex. It's not a highly specialized skill. Now, that being said, yes, some men or women are better lovers than others (like me for example - bwahaha lmao - sorry I couldn't resist ), or they are able to "pretend" better, or they enjoy sex with strangers more, then that part is technically a type of skill, yes. The thing is if that many women were doing it (even 10%) there would just be faaaaar too many in the market & the asking price would crash. B/c it's not *that* highly skilled to be super sexual, good at sex, or good looking, and there are plenty that are those things, such that it would saturate the market & cause the prevailing asking price to plummet. If even 10% of all women considered hobbying then they wouldn't be able to charge even $50/hr much less $100-$200/hr.

    So... WTF *is* my point right? Hahaha. Just that ya shouldn't worry about it buddy It's an infinitesimally small number of women in the grand scheme
    -MG

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathguy View Post
    Haha buddy. That last part was funny. Almost started laughing like for real...hehe I get what you're saying but let's put things in perspective right? Even with large hobby communities it's an extraordinarily miniscule fraction of overall women that are in the hobby

    In fact, going back to some of my posts on the economics of this industry it is that particular fact which allows this to be a lucrative "job". If even 15% of women out in the regular world, and it's very likely <1% as it stands, were to consider the hobby, the price, and therefore potential income, would plummet to abysmal levels.

    Why? Because once again anyone can have sex. It's not a highly specialized skill. Now, that being said, yes, some men or women are better lovers than others (like me for example - bwahaha lmao - sorry I couldn't resist ), or they are able to "pretend" better, or they enjoy sex with strangers more, then that part is technically a type of skill, yes. The thing is if that many women were doing it (even 10%) there would just be faaaaar too many in the market & the asking price would crash. B/c it's not *that* highly skilled to be super sexual, good at sex, or good looking, and there are plenty that are those things, such that it would saturate the market & cause the prevailing asking price to plummet. If even 10% of all women considered hobbying then they wouldn't be able to charge even $50/hr much less $100-$200/hr.

    So... WTF *is* my point right? Hahaha. Just that ya shouldn't worry about it buddy It's an infinitesimally small number of women in the grand scheme
    Yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't actually believe EVERY or ALOT of women do this hobbying thing. I'm just saying. It's suspect now when I meet MOST women. Actually, I have seen one woman on here that goes to my gym. She doesn't know that I know who she is, but that's just an example. If I didn't know about hobbying in general. It just leaves me wondering what if I asked her out? What does she say to guys that are feeling her as far as asking her out etc? What excuse does she use? She's VERY attractive and why is she single? I know that there are 100 reasons an attractive girl can be single, but I'm just saying this is now the 101 reason. Which is fine, you do you! But I'm just saying. It just leaves this question in my head now. I wonder about most of these girls(WOMEN) on here and how they now carry or pursue a RW relationship....ever! How do they separate this from their RW relationships with men? I know they won't date or marry a guy here. So what or where do they look and how did she meet them? and how do they turn it OFF for us and ON for them.....See what I'm saying?
    SORRY, GOTTEN OFF TOPIC, WENT OFF INTO MY RANT, LOL
    Last edited by someguy12; 08-13-2019 at 08:00 PM.
    DATY ENTHUSIAST

  9. #24
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy12 View Post
    Actually, I have seen one woman on here that goes to my gym. She doesn't know that I know who she is, but that's just an example. If I didn't know about hobbying in general. It just leaves me wondering what if I asked her out? What does she say to guys that are feeling her as far as asking her out etc? What excuse does she use? She's VERY attractive and why is she single? I know that there are 100 reasons an attractive girl can be single, but I'm just saying this is now the 101 reason. Which is fine, you do you! But I'm just saying. It just leaves this question in my head now.
    SORRY, GOTTEN OFF TOPIC, WENT OFF INTO MY RANT, LOL
    Actually it's not totally off topic b/c this is very closely related to the original question posted by Uni.

    I can answer some of your questions. I can't speak for women, but then again no woman can speak for every other woman anyway I do know some girls in the hobby and I've had a lot of experience in this realm.

    So for your main hypothetical question above, what does she say, how does she deal with guys who approach her in RL? Essentially the vast majority, and I mean vast majority, simply don't do that while they are in the hobby unless it's a very part-time hobby or they have a FWB. They don't "date" in the normal way. Some might. MOST don't though. Some end up having the hobby become a romantic connection (rarely, but it does happen - I've had it happen). Usually though at best it's typically an FWB situation that evolves while the girl still "works" other guys (at least while she is in the hobby life). The very rare exception is if it goes beyond that wherein the girl will essentially quit this line of work to be with the man. That could simply be that it's an exclusive SB arrangement with a wealthy man OR a genuine caring and respect for each other and enjoying sex together and all the other life goals and so on.

    The overwhelming majority of girls that hobby will not have a regular dating life the way you mentioned. They are single b/c they either like sex with various men and the money is good.

    I wish it was always rosey and they were all happy. Unfortunately the sad fact of the matter is that most are not always happy. They are very jaded. It's for money. This is the bad side of this hobby. That bad side also exists b/c not all men are good men. Respectful. Gentleman. Caring. Clean. Etc. They want to treat a woman like some fuck doll or do some odd fetish that bothers the girl and sickens her. Makes her feel worthless. This is the part that bothers me. I try to be vocal about how girls can fix this and enjoy a much safer and healthy (meaning mentally healthy) perspective about men by being much more discriminating and selective about partners.

    But, the quick answer is, they don't "date" like that.
    -MG

  10. #25
    Intelligence Rules Universal's Avatar
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    The fundamentals of friendship
    IS
    NOT ABOUT SEX

  11. #26
    Verified Hobbyist BCD Lovinglifeinaustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Universal View Post
    The fundamentals of friendship
    IS
    NOT ABOUT SEX
    This is true.

    If I were younger and single, I might think differently about being friends with the women of this realm. But for me I think I’m keeping it real.
    James
    Loving life in Austin



  12. #27
    Verified Hobbyist BCD NordicJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathguy View Post
    To play devil's advocate here and to put things in perspective let me point something out that displays my original postulate. Oh, btw, no I do not support the comment you were responding to Jag (I wanna be clear on that up front).

    So, about the Uber driver. You are right in certain scenarios it would be a bit ridiculous if we are talking about a superficial "friendship". However, what if these are real friends? What if the one friend who knows the Uber driver has fixed the Uber drivers car a few times? Maybe this person, man or woman, is a gear-head/mechanic and spent hours of their time working on that car to change oil, fix a transmission, swap spark plugs, etc.... Or what if the friend has been there for the other friend on numerous occasions as a shoulder to cry on? What if they have done other favors for them? All kinds of things. You name it. Given of their time to help their friend (the Uber driver, regardless of which one is the man or woman).

    Wouldn't you expect "something" in return as a friend of this person? How could you possibly be real friends otherwise? If they never did anything at all? No free ride, no listening to your problems, no loaning you money, no having drinks with you, no playing pool with you, no hanging out to watch a movie, no sex (*if* this was an opposite sex situation or romantic or FWB stuff was a possibility - obviously that is not *always* desired, not even by the man, for a variety of reasons). But nothing? Never? It doesn't have to be sex.

    Anyway, it does help illustrate my point that we all expect something in return for our time. It's just that with long time friends, marriages, romances, etc... we give them the benefit of the doubt, we take much more for granted, especially the longer and stronger that relationship has become (over a long time). We don't question their loyalty or that bond (whether it's truly friendly/platonic, romantic, marriage, brother/sister, etc). Make no mistake though, that relationship, romantic, opposite sex, platonic, or whatever would never even get that far if neither person scratched each other's back from time to time. This is the foundation for all human relationships. It's even the foundation for most animal relationships period (not just human).

    Oh, and, again, I'm not one bit saying that people in the hobby should do this (either gender). No no. But I also wouldn't call it prima facia unhealthy behavior. I've had it happen. Just as a couple girls above explained in their lives too. It just happened. There is nothing "wrong" with it. You just shouldn't expect it to happen. Too many men, like in the cautionary tale above by Lexie, end up having bad marriages, midlife crisis, etc... and they allow their sex time with a woman to romanticize the situation. This is absolutely the last thing you want to do. Trust me.



    This is all true even outside the hobby. People don't spend enough time getting to know each other and totally romanticize a sexual encounter (again, even outside this hobby) and they can't see clearly. This is normal. Do you know why? Well, I'll explain since I love to do that

    Oxytocin is traditionally thought of as a female hormone. It is not. Males produce it too. In fact a burst of it is released upon orgasm and ejaculation. Do you know what oxytocin is/does? Oxytocin is known as the love hormone for good reason. Touching someone can even release oxytocin. It's what allows a woman to bond with her baby during nursing. It's what allows us to have such strong feelings for a sexual partner. It even allows us to build normal social relationships. It's a powerful hormone involved in creating strong feelings and attractions toward someone. And the act of having sex causes both man and woman to release it in much larger quantities than normal. Have you ever been attracted to someone, whether you are a man or woman, like very attracted, and you meet them, or brush up against them where your skin touches, like your fingers, or your hands touch, maybe even someone at a store, like a cashier, and you get that chill up your spine (the good kind), hairs stand on end even if for just a split second, and you get the "goosies"?

    Without going into all the details of brain chemistry, dopamine, serotonin, etc... what do you think is responsible for that quick and pleasant feeling? Exactly. A mixture of oxytocin and a bunch of neurotransmitters stimulating your attraction to the other person and causing you to have that physical response (however brief it may be). Sex intensifies this a thousand fold. For both genders. This is why you should always make yourself do a reality check on the status of any "relationship" after sex is involved. IJS folks Hope this helps
    MG, I realize you were being devils advocate, but there is one thing that you said that I totally disagree with. A true friend never [B]expects[B] something in return when they do something for a friend. They do it because they want to and no other reason. Of course, it's nice if the other person reciprocates in some way, but it shouldn't be expected. However, if a person keeps helping a friend and nothing is ever reciprocated it can possibly put doubt as to whether they want to continue the friendship. I am pretty sure that id you do something for a friend expecting something in return there is probably a better than even chance that you will be disappointed. However, if you don't expect something in return, then anything you do get will be special.

    In the case of a friend doing major repair on a car, if a person thinks that is too much to do as a gift. then that should be discussed ahead of time. It then becomes a barter situation. In this case you're not expecting the friend to reciprocate out of the goodness of their heart.

  13. #28
    Verified Hobbyist BCD NordicJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canihitit View Post
    I didn’t say anything close to this shit right here.
    Sorry, if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say, I apologize. It seemed to me that you were saying that if you were friends with a provider, then they should occasionally provide some free service and I'm sure that there were probably others that thought the same thing. Again, if that was not what you werer saying, I'm sorry.

  14. #29
    Verified Companion Companion DallasRain's Avatar
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    Its a thin line

    I have quite alot of clients I have been seeing over 5 years..some for over 10 years...what we have is considered friends with a business touch.....I dont "hang out" with any...but i do offer off the clock mall shopping and dinners out...I even have one that I go to the nursing home and visit his elderly mom {cause I live in the town where she is at and he lives a couple states away}......I even get some of my gents personalized gifts.
    I have one I get collector civil war commerative plates at the flea market cause thats his interest...I have another in KC that I go to the mall with.....I have another who goes to Bourbon Street with me....I even have one at home that I get Buccees beef jerkey for when I visit Texas....it just depends on the gent & the situation at the time.

    I am an old lady in this biz so it has become more than just "making a buck & a fuck"!!!


    I consider this the hospitality part of my business....I like the personal touch cause I truely enjoy them as clients and care for them on a unique level....it makes what we have into a personal connection and that makes for good business..........BUT we all know that line and where we stand in the end and respect it!
    Last edited by DallasRain; 08-13-2019 at 10:38 PM.

  15. #30
    Intelligence Rules Universal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DallasRain View Post

    I even have one that I go to the nursing home and visit his elderly mom {cause I live in the town where she is at and he lives a couple states awasy}.... I truely enjoy them as clients and care for them
    YOU CARE & EXPECT NOTHING IN RETURN
    Dallas Rayne was the first person in this thread that
    SHOWED REAL FRIENDSHIP

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