Ads that say "No AA" And this African American mans Experience as a New Hobbyist

[Westley]

That seems to be the prevailing white opinion. Do AAs agree?

There is no reason why it has to be just one or the other. It can be a both. Having said that I operate on the premise that no man should dictate to women what their sexual perferences should be or who they should or should not have sex with and visa versa.

I am AA, over half a century old and at 74 inches in height at 300lbs described by my government appointed female physician as "overly nourished". Today there are companions who after my introduction refused to see me for a variety of biases such as age, body type, race, personality conflict, personal perference, and screening standards. Explicit biases are usually stated upfront in ads, menus, etc. Implicit biases not so much because implict biases and associations operate on a subconscience level. In my opinion a true courtesan will discover their implicit biases early in their career and take steps to mitigate them as a professional. Many of the reviews I have read on eccie and oh2 indicate that companions and admirers alike do not conduct themselves professionally.

Men can be and are just as discriminating as women if not more so. This would be evident in exceptionally cruel reviews of campanions. On the other hand, I love the company of all women of every shape, size, race, ethnic origin, religion and political or sexual orientation. However, my personal perference is for older assertive ladies that provide the ultimate girl friend experience. I tend to chose age, assertiveness, ethics, maturity, sensuality and wisdom over arrogance, beauty, youth, morals based on extreme religious fundamentals, and overbearing personalities. Furthermore, I avoid all cost companions that proffer the mean and bitchy wife experence because I have a wife and detachment of ex-wives more than willing to provide that particular service free of charge. However, my predilictations do not necessarily make me a racist do they? I would hope not.

[deesmooth]

deesmooth, this issue has been around for some time, so if you’re gonna continue to hobby, it’s one of the unsettling realities you need to embrace. The encounter you described was pretty awkward bruh, especially to a newbie, but don’t let it define your hobby.

You should work on getting verified here and getting P411 for verification. That’ll open up considerably more companions for you. With P411, I have my searches filtered by companions where “All Ethnicities Welcome” so NBA companions don’t even show up for me.

Happy hobbying sir. ��������





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Thanks Island Grant. I don't even no where to start with verifications or certifications. I have enjoyed myself since I joined a few weeks ago. It has been so much about sex as it has been that I have met some really cool and interesting ladies who have some great and unbelievable stories to tell. Honestly, I have been comtemplating whether this is the right venue for me. I guess only time with tell. I am not out to be with a lot of women, just a couple that I feel I have a good chemistry with; you know to make the experience that more pleasurable.

Any advice or help on how to get verified? Also, what is p411?

Thanks,

Dee

[Lovinglifeinaustin]

There is no reason why it has to be just one or the other. It can be a both. Having said that I operate on the premise that no man should dictate to women what their sexual perferences should be or who they should or should not have sex with and visa versa.

I am AA, over half a century old and at 74 inches in height at 300lbs described by my government appointed female physician as "overly nourished". Today there are companions who after my introduction refused to see me for a variety of biases such as age, body type, race, personality conflict, personal perference, and screening standards. Explicit biases are usually stated upfront in ads, menus, etc. Implicit biases not so much because implict biases and associations operate on a subconscience level. In my opinion a true courtesan will discover their implicit biases early in their career and take steps to mitigate them as a professional. Many of the reviews I have read on eccie and oh2 indicate that companions and admirers alike do not conduct themselves professionally.

Men can be and are just as discriminating as women if not more so. This would be evident in exceptionally cruel reviews of campanions. On the other hand, I love the company of all women of every shape, size, race, ethnic origin, religion and political or sexual orientation. However, my personal perference is for older assertive ladies that provide the ultimate girl friend experience. I tend to chose age, assertiveness, ethics, maturity, sensuality and wisdom over arrogance, beauty, youth, morals based on extreme religious fundamentals, and overbearing personalities. Furthermore, I avoid all cost companions that proffer the mean and bitchy wife experence because I have a wife and detachment of ex-wives more than willing to provide that particular service free of charge. However, my predilictations do not necessarily make me a racist do they? I would hope not.

Thank you sir for your insights.

[deesmooth]

This has been discussed over and over and over. Brittany summed it up best. Its personal preference. Not racism.

On a dating site, a woman may say "no men under 5 foot 10". That's her preference.

Stop trying to shame / victimize the woman who have clearly stated their preference. Move on. There are plenty of fish who will see you.

It seems that no one sees my main points! I will state it again, I DON'T CARE WHO SOMEONE PREFERS TO SEE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY WOULD OR WOULDN'T SEE SOMEONE. MY POINT IS, DON'T JUDGE ME OR ANY OTHER "AA" BASED ON AN EXPERIENCE YOU MAY HAVE HAD WTIH SOMEONE ELSE!!

We all have preferences. That is just life but to judge me or anyone else because some asshole treated you poorly is to me not so much racist as it is profiling and stereotyping. That was the point to my question.

I appreciate you answering it with honesty though.

Dee

[MarkWatney]

preferred411.com - If you have seen two providers that are p411 companions, one of them can invite you for new client membership and the other can vouch for you - membership is $99 for 6 months, and is highly valued in the community. Makes screening a breeze, because the providers can view your Okays when you request an appointment with them.

[deesmooth]

There is no reason why it has to be just one or the other. It can be a both. Having said that I operate on the premise that no man should dictate to women what their sexual perferences should be or who they should or should not have sex with and visa versa.

I am AA, over half a century old and at 74 inches in height at 300lbs described by my government appointed female physician as "overly nourished". Today there are companions who after my introduction refused to see me for a variety of biases such as age, body type, race, personality conflict, personal perference, and screening standards. Explicit biases are usually stated upfront in ads, menus, etc. Implicit biases not so much because implict biases and associations operate on a subconscience level. In my opinion a true courtesan will discover their implicit biases early in their career and take steps to mitigate them as a professional. Many of the reviews I have read on eccie and oh2 indicate that companions and admirers alike do not conduct themselves professionally.

Men can be and are just as discriminating as women if not more so. This would be evident in exceptionally cruel reviews of campanions. On the other hand, I love the company of all women of every shape, size, race, ethnic origin, religion and political or sexual orientation. However, my personal perference is for older assertive ladies that provide the ultimate girl friend experience. I tend to chose age, assertiveness, ethics, maturity, sensuality and wisdom over arrogance, beauty, youth, morals based on extreme religious fundamentals, and overbearing personalities. Furthermore, I avoid all cost companions that proffer the mean and bitchy wife experence because I have a wife and detachment of ex-wives more than willing to provide that particular service free of charge. However, my predilictations do not necessarily make me a racist do they? I would hope not.

Thanks Westly. As I stated many times, my question wasn't about race. I am the father of three very beautiful bi-racial kids. One who is married who is married to a very smart handsome German man. I could careless about who someone sleeps with or who someone prefers to be with. I agree with you 100 percent, I support everyone woman on here right to choose who they want to be with. My whole point was about judging me based on a poor or bad experience someone may have had and assuming that who I am and what I am about. I don't see color in people as it relates to my time or relationship with them. If you are good person to me, that all that matters.

Thanks for your insight. At least it has people talking about it; especially given the climate in the country right now.

Dee

[Lovinglifeinaustin]

preferred411.com - If you have seen two providers that are p411 companions, one of them can invite you for new client membership and the other can vouch for you - membership is $99 for 6 months, and is highly valued in the community. Makes screening a breeze, because the providers can view your Okays when you request an appointment with them.

I agree with Mark. It’s $99 well spent.

To clarify, when you join and see women who are P411 members, those women can post an OK on your profile on that board. Other women can check your profile, see those OKs, and might follow up with the women who provided the OKs. Like Mark said, this makes screening a breeze.

Best of luck to you.

[Westley]

It seems that no one sees my main points! I will state it again, I DON'T CARE WHO SOMEONE PREFERS TO SEE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY WOULD OR WOULDN'T SEE SOMEONE. MY POINT IS, DON'T JUDGE ME OR ANY OTHER "AA" BASED ON AN EXPERIENCE YOU MAY HAVE HAD WTIH SOMEONE ELSE!!

We all have preferences. That is just life but to judge me or anyone else because some asshole treated you poorly is to me not so much racist as it is profiling and stereotyping. That was the point to my question.

I appreciate you answering it with honesty though.

Dee

I got your point but it is what it is and not now we would want. Racism is just another variable people of color must plug in the equation and solve. Learn to be just as discriminating and leverage your bank to bring about change you envision in your hobby future. Sex selection is an indictment and judgement. Not too long ago on oh2 I informed a potential provider I did not think she was a good fit for me. She erronously made the assumption and argument as you accused of me being judgemental based on my past experiences. While, I denied it at the time I now concede she was spot on and still stand by my decision.

While, I will not refuse any companion solely on the basis of race but I will not be shamed or bullied into unfairly enriching any provider that is not a good fit for me solely on the basis of race either. I will alway exercise my freedom of choice. This choice in our society is constitutional right and all to often infringed upon religious extremist elected to government positions.

If one is genuinely upset by racial stereotyping explicitly or implicitly then maybe one can understand the hurt and economic decline created by refusing to hobby with one body type, hair color, breast size or the other. As long as there are different body types, hair color, breast sizes and various shades of skin color there will more than likely be sexual perferences based on those variables inclusive of race. Personally, I do not subscribe to the notion that just because a campanion refuses to accept admirer as a client or visa versa it automatically implies that she or he is racist.

There could be any number of reasons why a campanion might refuse to see a client other than race or ethnic origins. However, do you honestly think you will realize the best possible hobby experience, have your expectations exceeded or met if either party is uncomfortable with the other. Let it go. Recognize race for what it is.....an uncertain genetic variable. If a companion erects barriers based on race then I move on to something more certain. I recommend you do the same. I concur P411 is an excellent hobby investment and a good tool to limit contact with those campanions that would not be a good fit for you.

[britttany_love]

It seems that no one sees my main points! I will state it again, I DON'T CARE WHO SOMEONE PREFERS TO SEE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY WOULD OR WOULDN'T SEE SOMEONE. MY POINT IS, DON'T JUDGE ME OR ANY OTHER "AA" BASED ON AN EXPERIENCE YOU MAY HAVE HAD WTIH SOMEONE ELSE!!

We all have preferences. That is just life but to judge me or anyone else because some asshole treated you poorly is to me not so much racist as it is profiling and stereotyping. That was the point to my question.

I appreciate you answering it with honesty though.

Dee

The only question that I saw from your original post was this:

My question for you ladies that don't see African American men is, why don't you?

As I said before, I respect every ladies preference to choose who she wants to spend her time with or give her body to. I am asking the question because I am honestly curious about the reasons why.

It appears you got a lot of reasons and answers to your question in many replies. There is really not a single reason or answer as it is up to each individual lady as to why she will or won't see someone. Just like you have said you respect a ladies right to choose who she spends her time with, you also must respect her right to not have to give you an explanation for her doing so. If she put it clearly in her ad No AA then that is enough info for you to know that ya"ll arent a good match. Although blunt and quite frankly a turn off for many she is being honest and not wasting anyone's time. A few reasons that have come up as to why or that I have seen:

-some it is a race issue
-the size of their penis
-they feel they are a pimp or have thug like tendencies
-other clients will not see them because they see AA
-they haggle or rip them off
-the boyfirend/husband does not want them seeing AA clients
-personal tastes and preferences (no physical attraction)
-medical reason (feel they are more at risk of catching certain STDs based on statistics) another bs claim.

I have seen over the years numerous ads that do have the NO AA comment but only once or twice (and seems more common with in the last couple of years) have I seen it along with the no pimps/thugs line. A pimp or thug can be found in any race but unfortunately most are found to be AA so it just kind of gets slapped together by some people. You can blame a lot of things for that.. start with Hollywood and movies always portraying pimps as ghetto black dudes, talking and acting like thugs, acting violently, beating up and mistreating their '******s'.. it's sad but after it is constantly portrayed that way and about men of color then people start seeing that as how it is. The media is another huge contributor to this kind of bullshit. Open a paper or turn on the tv.. the headlines are always about some AA guy who was fighting with the cops, murdered someone, gang violence, drug deal bust, committed an assault, robbed something and so on. There are just as many White, Hispanic, Asian.. etc that do these same things but they aren't what gets the attention. No it is not right and no it isn't fair.

A shitty flaw but unfortunately every single human being casts judgement towards another. Not a single person is not guilty of doing this. People judge people everyday...for the way they look, their body type, the way they dress, how they carry themselves, the job they have, who they date, the money they have, where they live, who they associate with, the things they do, the views they have and so on. It's sad that things like these happen but its part of life and most of the time is out of our control and we are only wasting our time worrying about the bullshit. You as a person decide if you let this bother you or if you brush it of and move on.

One thing I will say since you have mentioned you are new. If you don't deal with judgement very well then I will say the hobby world might not be for you.

I have seen more judgement, hate, and prejudice in the hobby and by other members of the community than many would ever experience out in the real world. You need some thick skin to deal with much of what we have to deal with.

[deesmooth]

The only question that I saw from your original post was this:

My question for you ladies that don't see African American men is, why don't you?

As I said before, I respect every ladies preference to choose who she wants to spend her time with or give her body to. I am asking the question because I am honestly curious about the reasons why.

It appears you got a lot of reasons and answers to your question in many replies. There is really not a single reason or answer as it is up to each individual lady as to why she will or won't see someone. Just like you have said you respect a ladies right to choose who she spends her time with, you also must respect her right to not have to give you an explanation for her doing so. If she put it clearly in her ad No AA then that is enough info for you to know that ya"ll arent a good match. Although blunt and quite frankly a turn off for many she is being honest and not wasting anyone's time. A few reasons that have come up as to why or that I have seen:

-some it is a race issue
-the size of their penis
-they feel they are a pimp or have thug like tendencies
-other clients will not see them because they see AA
-they haggle or rip them off
-the boyfirend/husband does not want them seeing AA clients
-personal tastes and preferences (no physical attraction)
-medical reason (feel they are more at risk of catching certain STDs based on statistics) another bs claim.

I have seen over the years numerous ads that do have the NO AA comment but only once or twice (and seems more common with in the last couple of years) have I seen it along with the no pimps/thugs line. A pimp or thug can be found in any race but unfortunately most are found to be AA so it just kind of gets slapped together by some people. You can blame a lot of things for that.. start with Hollywood and movies always portraying pimps as ghetto black dudes, talking and acting like thugs, acting violently, beating up and mistreating their '******s'.. it's sad but after it is constantly portrayed that way and about men of color then people start seeing that as how it is. The media is another huge contributor to this kind of bullshit. Open a paper or turn on the tv.. the headlines are always about some AA guy who was fighting with the cops, murdered someone, gang violence, drug deal bust, committed an assault, robbed something and so on. There are just as many White, Hispanic, Asian.. etc that do these same things but they aren't what gets the attention. No it is not right and no it isn't fair.

A shitty flaw but unfortunately every single human being casts judgement towards another. Not a single person is not guilty of doing this. People judge people everyday...for the way they look, their body type, the way they dress, how they carry themselves, the job they have, who they date, the money they have, where they live, who they associate with, the things they do, the views they have and so on. It's sad that things like these happen but its part of life and most of the time is out of our control and we are only wasting our time worrying about the bullshit. You as a person decide if you let this bother you or if you brush it of and move on.

One thing I will say since you have mentioned you are new. If you don't deal with judgement very well then I will say the hobby world might not be for you.

I have seen more judgement, hate, and prejudice in the hobby and by other members of the community than many would ever experience out in the real world. You need some thick skin to deal with much of what we have to deal with.

Thanks Brittany. I saw your post the other day regarding the "heartless asshole" who tried to make you feel badly about yourself and I wanted to send you a note to say good for you blasting his ass. You are obviously an intelligent, confident and beautiful woman so I was happy to see you call him on his bullshit.

I guess I should have been a bit more clear about my post. It was mainly about my first attempted encounter where I didn't know she didn't see "AA". I have no problem with a lady not seeing "AA". It makes it easier for me to know who I can possibly contact to spend time with if they are willing to spend time with me.

I don't worry about people judging me for any reason. They don't know me so their judgements or opinions don't really matter to me. It was more about assuming something about me because of an experience they may have had with someone else. As an African American man, I get judged/stereotyped almost everyday when I walk in a high end store to look at shoes or a new suit and someone is falling me around to see if I am going to steal something. I know this is the case because one of my closest friends, who is white and I did a little experiment at a high end store to see who would be helped, followed or both. Needless and sad to say, I was both followed throughout the store and no one ever asked me if I needed help. He on the other hand, had no one follow him and was asked if he needed help by three different people. He called them out on it and of course they denied it or didn't have anything to say. Or the other day for example when I got pulled over for speeding in my Mercedes going 60 in a 55 mph zone and three cars drove by me going at least 65 or 70. Was it because I was speeding or because I was a black man in a Mercedes that of course had to be stolen? or at least that's the way my brain processed it. Of course I will never know the answer to that question but the way I look at it, that was 25 minutes of my life I will never get back.

I guess my naivety has shown here because I thought it was just an honest and simple question that has turned into a whole thing. Well, life is about experiences and I can assure you, this has definitely been one! LOL!!

Thanks,

Dee

[Fancyinheels]

.... If your money is green and you pass my screen......✌

I share Chili's opinion.

This issue repeatedly pops up in the Hobby, but alas, has no definitive, singular, or easy answer, apparently. All we can control is our own individual behavior and perceptions, and leave others to their beliefs while we each choose how to spend our time and/or money.

[Electric]

You can be for women having the right to choose who they want to have sex with for money, and you can acknowledge that the reason "No AA" is more prevalent than any preference choice is mostly rooted in racism. They are not mutually exclusive.

When prostitution is legalized in the future, this is going to be the one area in which racism should probably be allowed for independent contractors since the business is a human being's body. It's a different situation than with the normal type of business since you're committing a more intimate act. I'm not sure how I feel about legalized brothels denying people, but that's a different conversation.

Without actually looking at hard statistics, we all know generally that "No AA" and age restrictions are the most common "preferences" on escort sites with "No AA" being the most common of the two. It's weird that these "personal preference" are the most prevailing preference of them all. You barely see "No Fat Men" ads or "No Old Men" ads on escort sites. On dating sites I always see "No One Below 6ft", but it's crazy that no one on escorting sites mentions this preference? You definitely see it more than "No One Below X Age." Why is there such a difference between dating sites preferences and escort site preferences?!?!?! You would think that the woman on escort sites would be more similar to civilian woman, right? Why wouldn't we see large amounts of "preferences" for other categories?

Sorry, I'm going to have to use Occam's razor on this one. Sure you can argue that a certain fringe case this is not racism, but it's absurd and ignorant to just pretend like it's not mostly rooted in racism. You can't just say "oh, I can think of one case in which it's not racism so it's all not racism." If there was a more balanced preference list, that would make sense. There has to be one woman on here who doesn't like fat men? How come I can go on Tinder or PoF and see all the women saying there's height restrictions, but on escort sites the only restrictions are "No AA" and age? I rarely see anyone not want a man over a certain age on OurHome2, but on Tinder, old age is a really big deal! Are the girls on Tinder and Pof just soooo different that they have more varied preferences? I highly doubt it. "Preferences" isn't enough of a reason to explain away the large discrepancy between dating site preferences and escort site preferences.

At the end of the day though, you can't stop racism at an individual level. People are racist. People are sexist. People are ageist. That's just life. Escorting is as an independent contractor should give you the ability to say no to anyone. You can't put escorting on the same level of critique as other businesses. This isn't black and white. Everyone is right in this thread. You are allowed to say "No AA", and I'm allowed to think you're a shitty human being.

[3daygetaway]

Preferring to systematically exclude a group of people based on the color of their skin, especially when based on limited, past experiences, is the definition of racism. When we treat future encounters based on our experiences of previous encounters, we disallow the past to become the future: we essentially take a picture of the past, and in our minds whatever that picture was, that thing will always be frozen in time, unless we choose to allow it to change.

Make no mistake, we are biologically programmed to do the opposite: we are designed to not eat the fruit that made us sick ever again – – it’s the trait that allowed us to become the dominant species on the planet. However, we have evolved past that survival instinct and need to let the past be the past, in order to be a part of the future.

[Electric]

Preferring to systematically exclude a group of people based on the color of their skin, especially when based on limited, past experiences, is the definition of racism.

It's crazy. I cannot believe the amount of people pretending this is not the definition of racism. How many times throughout the decades has someone said "this is not racism" when do something to an entire group or excluding an entire group of people from an activity, and it turned out decades later we all agree that it's racism. Yes, I have a preference in type of girl, but I'm not going to just exclude an entire group. There still might be an individual worth seeing even though she doesn't fit my preferences. The hoops you people have to jump through to explain away the most clearest cut case of racism is outstanding.

[mathguy]

You can be for women having the right to choose who they want to have sex with for money, and you can acknowledge that the reason "No AA" is more prevalent than any preference choice is mostly rooted in racism. They are not mutually exclusive.

When prostitution is legalized in the future, this is going to be the one area in which racism should probably be allowed for independent contractors since the business is a human being's body. It's a different situation than with the normal type of business since you're committing a more intimate act. I'm not sure how I feel about legalized brothels denying people, but that's a different conversation.

Without actually looking at hard statistics, we all know generally that "No AA" and age restrictions are the most common "preferences" on escort sites with "No AA" being the most common of the two. It's weird that these "personal preference" are the most prevailing preference of them all. You barely see "No Fat Men" ads or "No Old Men" ads on escort sites. On dating sites I always see "No One Below 6ft", but it's crazy that no one on escorting sites mentions this preference? You definitely see it more than "No One Below X Age." Why is there such a difference between dating sites preferences and escort site preferences?!?!?! You would think that the woman on escort sites would be more similar to civilian woman, right? Why wouldn't we see large amounts of "preferences" for other categories?

Sorry, I'm going to have to use Occam's razor on this one. Sure you can argue that a certain fringe case this is not racism, but it's absurd and ignorant to just pretend like it's not mostly rooted in racism. You can't just say "oh, I can think of one case in which it's not racism so it's all not racism." If there was a more balanced preference list, that would make sense. There has to be one woman on here who doesn't like fat men? How come I can go on Tinder or PoF and see all the women saying there's height restrictions, but on escort sites the only restrictions are "No AA" and age? I rarely see anyone not want a man over a certain age on OurHome2, but on Tinder, old age is a really big deal! Are the girls on Tinder and Pof just soooo different that they have more varied preferences? I highly doubt it. "Preferences" isn't enough of a reason to explain away the large discrepancy between dating site preferences and escort site preferences.

At the end of the day though, you can't stop racism at an individual level. People are racist. People are sexist. People are ageist. That's just life. Escorting is as an independent contractor should give you the ability to say no to anyone. You can't put escorting on the same level of critique as other businesses. This isn't black and white. Everyone is right in this thread. You are allowed to say "No AA", and I'm allowed to think you're a shitty human being.

I'd agree they don't have to be mutually exclusive, but yes they can be. It's incorrect to make the statement that they can't both exist at the same time.

Racism is a hate and superiority issue. It's about one race not seeing another race as equal, or as capable, or as intelligent, or not worthy of the same respect, etc....

A sexual preference is totally different. That would be like saying since you don't engage in homosexual sex (because you are a heterosexual) that you are a homophobe. How absurd does that sound? Do you think those things are not mutually exclusive?

I will grant you that unfortunately probably a lot of what we are talking about here was born of racism or has roots in it.

This is again why I say the best policy is to not put it in ads. Just use it privately in your screening process or gather it through your conversations and such with prospective clients.

I don't think Occam applies here. In popular culture this has come to mean "the simplest answer is usually the right one". That's not really what Occam's razor is about but there is enough of an analogy that it works in movies and pop culture.

Occam's razor is about removing unnecessary multiplicity of entities. Basically it's saying that we should remove as many assumptions as possible when faced with competing hypotheses. It tends to be easy to see a corrolation to, "the simplest hypothesis is usually the correct one". That's not really true but it's close enough for many arguments. That notion is actually called the "law of parsimony" or "law of simplicity".

I don't think we can apply Occam's razor here. However, you make some compelling observations in your quote. You are comparing dating sites and escort sites. That's one issue and why I say we can't use Occam here. We are not *really* talking about two competing hypotheses the way you presented it. Those are completely different subjects, dating sites vs escort sites. You do make some compelling statements but I still don't think Occam's principle can be invoked here.

This hobby is a very special subculture which is not governed by mainstream society or its typical views. So that's another issue. It's possible that there are cultural reasons (within this subculture) that have caused the rise in prevalence of the particular "No AA" policy we often see. But like you said we also see age policies. I've also seen women who say they don't see Indian men. Or Asian men. No men under this age, no men over this age. I've seen many different things stated in ads. I still think we have to consider them preferences, or even bad experiences the girls went through, which caused these preferences, until proven otherwise.

But, yes, I think it would be wise for girls to not put these things out in the open. No matter what the condition is and just collect it privately.

-mg