Radical Changes to save the economy

[Guest 121818-1]

I dont know about the rest of you guys but a dollar to me is still a dollar and not a percentage point. I dont pay my taxes in percents I pay them in dollars.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 09:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I dont know about the rest of you guys but a dollar to me is still a dollar and not a percentage point. I dont pay my taxes in percents I pay them in dollars.[/b]

2Dogs....everybody pays in dollares.

What you stated was that it was not fair for one group to have a tax increase and have it paid for by another group. That is exactly what Reagan did. That is exactly what Obama is doing. You only seem to think Obama&#39;s is unfair. Why? Obama is half ass reversing what Reagan did.

The poor and middle class pay a higher % of their taxes in regressive taxes, taxes that everybody pays but cost those that make less a higher % of their income. To counter that we have a Progeressive Federal Tax code.

To Bigtex&#39;s very articulate thought about having tax cuts during a war. It is exactly the Ronald Reagan mentality that breeds this kind of nonsense. During WWII everybody chipped in and did their part either by fighting or saving or paying more in taxes to pay for the war. It is called sacrifice. We fought a war that is just now starting to hit citizens that did not make any sacrifice by having a family member/friend killed or maimed. It is hitting them in the pocket book where it should have hit them when we first went to war. Bush&#39;s tax cuts and war spending are coming home to roost!

[htownhammer]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 24 2009, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The balls of the Tenth Ammendment were basically castrated by the war for states rights. W4e have basically been fucked by a overbearing federal government ever since. Hell the "FEDS" even forced the occupation of the states that were against a strong federal government with carpet baggers from the north.[/b]

Some of the states rights during the "war for states rights" weren&#39;t worth saving.

States&#39; rights to engage in slavery;
States&#39; rights to suppress the freedom of speech of those opposed to slavery or its expansion, by seizing abolitionist literature from the mail;
States&#39; rights to violate the sovereignty of the non-slave States by sending slave-catchers into their territory to enforce the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850, to seize supposed runaway slaves by force of arms.
States&#39; rights to send armed Border Ruffians into the territories of the United States such as Kansas to engage in massive vote fraud and acts of violence; see Slave Power and Bleeding Kansas;
States&#39; rights to deem portions of their population as having "no rights", by means of the Dred Scott decision;
States&#39; rights to secede from the United States after an election whose result they disagreed with, the election in 1860 of Abraham Lincoln;
States&#39; rights to seize United States forts and arsenals following their purported secession; see Fort Sumter;
States&#39; rights to overturn the ideal expressed in the Declaration of Independence—that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
States&#39; rights to have a less democratic form of government within the state of South Carolina than was true of other states. Although all white male residents were allowed to vote, property restrictions for office holders were higher in South Carolina than in any other state.[2] South Carolina had the only state legislature where slave owners had the majority of seats.[2] It was the only state where the legislature elected the governor, all judges and state electors.[2] The state&#39;s chief executive was a figurehead who had no authority to veto legislative law.[2]

[usetacould]

WTF wrote:

"The poor and middle class pay a higher % of their taxes in regressive taxes, taxes that everybody pays but cost those that make less a higher % of their income. To counter that we have a Progeressive Federal Tax code."

which means the progressive tax code is designed to get more from those who worked harder or smarter, which allowed them to earn more. Now if I earn $1 more and know that I will only be allowed to keep less than .50, what incentive do I have to earn more. It is regressive for me to work more and effectively earn less.

On the other hand if I am on welfare making $300. a week, for staying at home and filling out paper work to collect my check, why would I want to go out and try to earn $$ because it would reduce the amount that I get for sitting at home collecting that check. There is again no incentive to improve my situation.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (usetacould @ Feb 28 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

WTF wrote:

"The poor and middle class pay a higher % of their taxes in regressive taxes, taxes that everybody pays but cost those that make less a higher % of their income. To counter that we have a Progeressive Federal Tax code."

which means the progressive tax code is designed to get more from those who worked harder or smarter, which allowed them to earn more. Now if I earn $1 more and know that I will only be allowed to keep less than .50, what incentive do I have to earn more. It is regressive for me to work more and effectively earn less.

On the other hand if I am on welfare making $300. a week, for staying at home and filling out paper work to collect my check, why would I want to go out and try to earn $$ because it would reduce the amount that I get for sitting at home collecting that check. There is again no incentive to improve my situation.[/b]

Yea buddy you can live like a king on three hundred dollars a week. Make&#39;s me want to quit my million dollar a year job cause of those high taxes and get on welfare. lol

There are two forms of taxes Progressive and Regressive. You need to understand both concepts &#39;usetacould&#39; to have a rational discussion. http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/taxation.html

I can not find the study but most people pay 40% of their income in either Federal, State, Local or Sales taxes. Actually people that make between 50k -500k.

This is the most right leaning board have ever run across. I am amazed at what you are being taught in school. My God the earh is only 10,000 years old. It is not right for a person that has not worked to collect welfare yet it it quite alright for some rich spoiled brat that has not earned a penny to inherit welfare from his family? You guys have no clue about generational wealth and the power and influnce that it buys. It is the biggest form of welfare in this nation. It is why we have coopertae welfare....that little program that those on the right turn a blind eye to.

[Guest 121818-1]

You amze me QTF with your totally worthless point of view about other peoples money and what is right for them to do with it. I dont give a rats ass if it is a spoiled rich brat or not they money belongs to the person that leaves that to whomever they choose and it isnt the governments nor your business what they do with it. Welfare, you are a joke with your opinion that inheritance is welfare. What gives you or anybody including the government to take somebody&#39;s money that they earned and paid taxes on.; I guess it is up to people like you to want to leagalize stealing somebodys money. You also think that it is a great idea to take money by force from people that have it and give it to people that dont. You probably cant wait to have the government steal some money and give it to that wonderful mother of 14 in California. Peole like you in your self righteousness make me shake my head in wonder at who taught you that taking from some to give to others is plenty good with you.

You see me, I prefer to participate in charity where the giving is of my free will rather than taken at gunpoint. I enjoy giving and donating my time to charity. I get to make a personal decision on when where and how much I contribute rather than have it taken from me and used in ways that I may not approve of.

Htowner, slavery was just a single issue and not even one that Abe wanted to abolish as the war for states rights wasnt really about slavery but became the hot ticket item that some rallied around. The states that were fighting for states rights were for the most part willing to do away with slavery. The issues of the times were an over-reaching federal government that was encroaching on the constitutional rights of the states. As far as the Declaration of Independec, it really doesnt mean much in the context of the formation of a government as that is what the constitution was for and that document addressed slavery. I did not live in that era but regardless f race I would not think it right to own anothe rhuman even though slavery has exisited in all of recorded history, it still isnt right.

WTF, I dont want to go and do a bunch of research but will say with conviction that whatever the dollar amount is what we as a people pay in taxes is too much. The federal government is too big and it is past the point of what ALL of the people can afford. I dont know of many people that are successful, are rich, and or have become rich by working a 40 hour a week job. I sure dont and I am far from rich but I amke damn good money because of the time and effort I put into what I do. I would make far less than I do if I wrked 5 days a week 8 hours a day took off all of the holidays, 4 or 5 weeks of vacation, sick days, personal days etc but I would also have to cut my work-force dramatically and eliminate a whiole buunch of jobs of the ones that work their 40. That is what you liberals have a hard time understanding nad you wonder why those of us that stupid enough to work so hard when the more you make the more the government takes. You may or may not believe how many of our employees will turn down the opportunity to work some overtime because they dont think it is worth the extra taxes they will have to pay.

But pointing all this out to people like you is a waste of time as you dont see the whole picture only the parts of the picture you want to see and quite often you add things into the picture that arent really there. You have a hard time understanding pride of ownership and achievemant especially personal achievement.

So much for today, I just wasted 20 minutes our so but I was done wortking for the day taking care of some business and preparing to put some people to wrk on Monday so they can continue to make their 40 while I work my 70. Now if I can just keep those thieving democrats from stealing more of my money.

[Gnadfly]

More importantly,

WHERE&#39;S MY CHECK?!?!

The Obamessiah can lower gas prices but he can&#39;t send me a check?!? What the hope?

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

you are a joke with your opinion that inheritance is welfare. . .

. . .So much for today, I just wasted 20 minutes our so[/b]

As are yours...that took me all of thirty seconds. No wonder you REpub&#39;s are so mad you waste twenty minute&#39;s on what should only take thirty seconds. lol

My opinion counts just as much as yours. I&#39;m just quicker expressing it!

If you would like to expand your knowledge as to WHY people think the estate tax is a good ideal read this link or continue to belittle me, it matters not. If nothing else research the &#39;&#39;laws of accumulation&#39;&#39;.

http://pgt.liebertpub.com/PGT/Articles/mt_...d_a_history.htm

It is ironic in a country as devoted to individual liberty and free enterprise as ours that the most ardent promoters of a federal estate tax have been some of our fiercest patriots and richest capitalists: Thomas Paine, Andrew Carnegie, Theodore Roosevelt and Warren Buffet to name a few

According to Carnegie, philanthropy in a capitalist economy solves the problem of rich and poor alike. “The laws of accumulation will be left free, the laws of distribution free. Individualism will continue, but the millionaire will be but a trustee for the poor.” Carnegie concludes his famous tract with the words: “The man who dies rich dies disgraced.”



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

You see me, I prefer to participate in charity where the giving is of my free will rather than taken at gunpoint. I enjoy giving and donating my time to charity. I get to make a personal decision on when where and how much I contribute rather than have it taken from me and used in ways that I may not approve of.[/b]

You only really bitch about liberals....yet you continue to vote for Republicans that blow money on Defense. A huge waste of MY fucking money and our citizen&#39;s lives. I have plenty of fire power, I do not need my taxes to go a wasting in Irag or any other country. We could bring ALL our troops home from Germany to South Korea and cut that spending by 80%. I&#39;ll take my chance&#39;s on any towel headed terrorist coming to this country. Fuc quit wasting my taxes in other countries.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

That is what you liberals have a hard time understanding nad you wonder why those of us that stupid enough to work so hard when the more you make the more the government takes. You may or may not believe how many of our employees will turn down the opportunity to work some overtime because they dont think it is worth the extra taxes they will have to pay.[/b]

You think Warren Buffet is a conserative.....he voted for Obama. You guys are under some false impression that only Conserative&#39;s are rich and work hard. That is a false belief....when you have a false belief&#39;s is makes you have false assumptions.

I used to get paid by the hour and trust me you got some lazy ass employee&#39;s that do not want to work and are using that bullshit of an excuse. Overtime is where you can make some money in the hourly field. You need to hire some go getters.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

But pointing all this out to people like you is a waste of time as you dont see the whole picture only the parts of the picture you want to see and quite often you add things into the picture that arent really there. You have a hard time understanding pride of ownership and achievemant especially personal achievement.[/b]

That is utter and total bunk.......a false assumption based on a false belief.

You can do better than that.

People like me??? WTF!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 28 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

. Now if I can just keep those thieving democrats from stealing more of my money.[/b]

I hate to break it to you but the Republican Party stole your money for the last eight years. WE had a stock market bubble and people actually think that they had money that they did not have, it was an illusion built on lies. Republican lies that you ignore. You can not blame anyone but the party in power and their FALSE BELIEFS for what has happened. Milton Friedman died in 2006 and his false belief&#39;s died when Greenspan testified that they actually thought (falsely in turns out, that is what I mean by a false belief) markets would self regulate. No that is the joke! It was played on all the taxpayers. Who wound up with all the money...who bailed them out? We have been shat on.

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gnadfly @ Feb 28 2009, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>More importantly,

FAILED to get you a check.


Watch what you wish for.

[Sysiphus]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Feb 27 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

So you are saying that only one group had to pay the incresed taxes on gasoline, interesting. Hos did one group avoid paying the higher taxes on the gas.[/b]

No, he&#39;s saying you don&#39;t understand the difference between a progressive & a regressive tax. :P

A tax that is assessed "across the board" (like the tax on gasoline, X cents per gallon purchased) regardless of any income considerations is said to be "regressive" - especially if it is for a commodity that everyone has to have regardless of income... like gas or food!! It is, in effect, an indirect transfer of wealth from those less able to pay (read, the poor) the tax to those more able to pay (read, the the rich).

Progressive taxes (like varying the rates of tax on income) are the converse. Somebody.... for the life of me I can&#39;t remember who know... publishes a finding/ranking of "tax fairness" every year or so by attempting to add up all of the regressive & progressive taxes within a given country. It&#39;s interesting to watch countries move up or down in the rankings based on which way the lean politically at any given point in time.

[usetacould]

I could not get this to print in this box, so please review the link and then look for my analysis.

Who pays the most in taxes?[/url] <_<

http://www.house.gov/jec/news/2008/July/pr110-45.pdf

The chart from the Joint Economic Committee (based on 2006 IRS data), shows the percentages of federal personal income tax paid by different groups of taxpayers: The top 1% of taxpayers pay about 40% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 71%, and the top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. The bottom 50% pays less than 3% of all income taxes paid. :blink:

The top 1% of taxpayers has over 21% of all adjusted gross income, the top 10% has over 46%, and the top 50% has over 87% of all adjusted gross income. The bottom 50% has less than 13% of all adjusted gross income. :huh:

The top 1% of taxpayers has over 21% of all adjusted gross income, the top 10% has over 46%, and the top 50% has over 87% of all adjusted gross income. The bottom 50% has less than 13% of all adjusted gross income. <_<

What it means is that every income group, except the bottom 50%, pays taxes at a rate that is higher than their percentage share of income. The bottom 50% pay taxes at a rate that is more than 4 times less than their percentage share of AGI. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[WTF]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (usetacould @ Feb 28 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I could not get this to print in this box, so please review the link and then look for my analysis.

Who pays the most in taxes?[/url] <_<

http://www.house.gov/jec/news/2008/July/pr110-45.pdf

The chart from the Joint Economic Committee (based on 2006 IRS data), shows the percentages of federal personal income tax paid by different groups of taxpayers: The top 1% of taxpayers pay about 40% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 71%, and the top 50% pay 97% of all taxes. The bottom 50% pays less than 3% of all income taxes paid. :blink:

The top 1% of taxpayers has over 21% of all adjusted gross income, the top 10% has over 46%, and the top 50% has over 87% of all adjusted gross income. The bottom 50% has less than 13% of all adjusted gross income. :huh:

The top 1% of taxpayers has over 21% of all adjusted gross income, the top 10% has over 46%, and the top 50% has over 87% of all adjusted gross income. The bottom 50% has less than 13% of all adjusted gross income. <_<

What it means is that every income group, except the bottom 50%, pays taxes at a rate that is higher than their percentage share of income. The bottom 50% pay taxes at a rate that is more than 4 times less than their percentage share of AGI. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:[/b]

Damn do you fellows not know the difference between a PROGRESSIVE....The Federal INCOME tax and REGRESSIVE taxes such as sales or user fee&#39;s?

Without including both taxes you present a distorted view of actual taxes.

I&#39;m really starting to believe that ya&#39;ll do not understand the overall tax picture. That seems to be what the problem is. You keep posting just INCOME taxes...

Please, Please, Please read this link , it will better help you understand the tax system...

http://www.psnw.com/~bashford/taxation.html

[usetacould]

No, it is you who don&#39;t understand. We want less federal government as it was intended by the constitution, and the liberal out of our wallet.

[Guest 121818-1]

Put a name on a pig and it is still a pig.

[Sysiphus]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (2Dogs @ Mar 1 2009, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Put a name on a pig and it is still a pig.[/b]

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It&#39;s a waste of your time... AND... it annoys the pig!