Sweatin' like a ***** in church

[1andonlyboardman]

In the Christian faith: God gave just 10 rules/commandments via Moses. The Jewish religious heirarchy greatly expanded upon those, creating hundreds of rules, but I digress. Those original 10 commandments were meant to show us that we are inadequate. If you could keep them in heart, mind and deed you’d be perfect. Apart from Jesus, to my knowledge, no one has kept them. The logical conclusion is that if God requires perfection, then He must save us. We cannot save ourselves. That’s where grace through faith comes in. We have faith in God/Jesus and he graciously forgives us and allows us to be with Him for eternity.

To me, that God exists is obvious. Knowing who God is, is more difficult. Different cultures identify with God differently. According to the Bible, Jesus is the only way to the Father/God. You cannot earn your way into Heaven by being good. I know many disagree with that concept, but that is what it says. No rules, just faith.

According to the New Testament you are correct. Grace is the only way.
But the Torah or the first five books of the old Testament contains an additional 600+ commandments. So it's not just following 10 commandments, it's following 613. Some might say that these were made up rules but the Bible says that Moses went onto Mt. Sinai for 40 days and nights to receive not only the Ten Commandments but also the entire Torah, it's laws and interpretations so that he could teach it to the Children of Israel. Still other laws were given to Moses by God at the Tabernacle. If the Ten Commandments were received from God then so was the entire Torah and all the laws. Christ was Grace and he didn't come until 5000 years later. What happened to all of God's people in the interim? Tradition says that the Torah was put in writing by Moses. Biblical Scholars believe the actual writing of the Torah took place between 600 and 400 BC. That means there is at least 4000 years of oral history. That's why it's widely accepted by scholars that the Old Testament is largely allegorical. The stories were handed down as lessons to teach a code of morality and also the punishment for being immoral. But if the bible, The Word of God, especially the old Testament is allegorical that means it's not historically accurate. Did God lie to us in stories to teach us a lesson or did man? How much am I to believe as the Word of God? How much of the New Testament am I to believe to be historically accurate and also the word of God rather than man.

We know that the New Testament was written by the Apostles, or at least the Gospels were. While not actually there to witness the events the history as written by Josephus(there's that "J" that didn't exist) is considered to be accurate. The Epistles of Paul are also mostly attributed to him and considered authentic. So there is enough evidence for scholars and historians to conclude that a man named Jesus, or Yeshua actually lived and that the events surrounding his life and crucifixion requested by the Jews and ordered by Pilate were historically accurate. In Judaism and In several Middle Eastern faiths, including Islam, Jesus is considered a Prophet but not Christ or the Messiah. The historical evidence in the New Testament is much more compelling.

The second covenant, Grace as you accurately described, eliminates the need for following any commandments. Caroline, the answer to your question is Yes, we can fuck up as much as we want but the problem with that is saying that we accept Jesus isn't enough. We have to mean it. If we mean it with a conviction in our hearts then there logically should be more of a desire (not perfection) to please him than not. So the "want" to fuck up is less than the want to be good...ideally our conscience couldn't accept Grace if we didn't feel we deserved it.

Here is the problem I have. There are estimated to be roughly 20000 people groups in the world. Half of which have never even heard the Gospel. What happens to all those people who never got the chance. Jesus charged the Apostles with spreading the word. Christians are big on missions to do just that and have been for 2000 years and only half the people groups have been reached. I've heard Theologians say that the second coming won't occur until everyone has had a chance to hear the gospel. Well, what about all the people who have already died and never got to hear it. Are they condemned? Do they get a second chance at the Pearly gates? How long will it take to reach another 7-10k people groups. Another 2000 years? If our fate is not predetermined and free will plays a part then we as a civilization could perish tomorrow. What happens to all those people who have yet to be reached. Does God turn away from them? Are then condemned without ever even knowing why?

I just can't help but believe that not accepting something you've never even heard of prevents you from receiving Grace if you've been an otherwise morally good person and you feel you have followed the rules as you knew them. A person should have at least earned the right to be judged by the rules they played by...by whoever their creator turns out to be.

[Rickshaw17]

Good points and good questions. I cannot answer many of them. I do not think the Bible answers every question, at least I cannot find within it the answers to many of mine. It seems Biblically clear that Jesus saves us. “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me”. At some point, “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.” At isssue is when and how souls are saved. For those who have the opportunity to accept or reject Jesus in this life; you either accept His sacrifice on your behalf and go to Heaven or you reject it and go elsewhere.

I do not know what happens to those who do not learn of Jesus before they die. The Old Testament describes those who ultimately went to Heaven before Jesus came to Earth. Some scholars say before Christ’s appearance, the dead resided in Sheol until He visited them immediately after his crusifixion. If so, I have to believe Jesus will provide a salvation opportunity for those who die without knowledge of Him in this life.

[1andonlyboardman]

I hope, that upon my ascent to Heaven, not only will the meaning of life and the existence of the universe be made clear to me but I will also have the ability to flawlessly play a guitar in any style imaginable AND I will have a complete understanding of abstract mathematics...

[Rickshaw17]

I think I’m going to ask God why he created sex. It has been the bane of my existence. :(

[Midnite312004]

I actually was a preacher's better-half...not into the church thing anymore though
But when I did do the church thing I was a good "church slut" lol......never wore panties under my dress and did dirty deeds all over the church after hours. Lol. !!

DallasRain I love fun women like you or sluts as you call it. Women like you we could have fun all over the place. Boring lazy women are just ugh. I used to go to church and was all in it until I really started reading the Bible and I was like WTF. I still believe in a Supreme being though. But even when I did go to church I was always scoping out the ladies with their tight skirts and blouses on and wondering if I could get it. Guess I am slut too.

[WangoTango]

I actually was a preacher's better-half...not into the church thing anymore though
But when I did do the church thing I was a good "church slut" lol......never wore panties under my dress and did dirty deeds all over the church after hours. Lol. !!

Oh do tell!

[WangoTango]

A few years back on eccie's ISO section, some guy wanted to know if any providers would go to Bible study with him and then have a session afterwards. Lolol.

[DallasRain]

Lol. Funny Wango

When we were in the ministry we actually did the deed
At church camp in the woods
In the baptismal
In the choir loft
N the cemetary next door
And even behind the pulpit

Just cause ya go to church doesn't mean ya cant be a nympho freak. Lol

[WangoTango]

Lol. Funny Wango

When we were in the ministry we actually did the deed
At church camp in the woods
In the baptismal
In the choir loft
N the cemetary next door
And even behind the pulpit

Just cause ya go to church doesn't mean ya cant be a nympho freak. Lol

Very nice. About 15 years ago our Pastor's wife was very shapely and I lusted after her. Church is a nice place to scope out ladies because they are usually dressed very nice, plus it seems to be ok nowadays to show a lot of cleavage.

[WangoTango]

Lol. Funny Wango

When we were in the ministry we actually did the deed
At church camp in the woods
In the baptismal
In the choir loft
N the cemetary next door
And even behind the pulpit

Just cause ya go to church doesn't mean ya cant be a nympho freak. Lol

You've got me very intrigued now Dallas. Could be a little role play in our future.

[Fancyinheels]

Is cock worship a religion? If so, I think I and many other lassies here could be called amorous adoring apostles for the Gobble Gospel!

[Cyclosarin]

I must say, you all have some fascinating conversations. I’m normally a lurker, but I’ll pop out of the shell here and there and kill a thread. I feel semi-obligated in this case. Primary purpose is to correct some mistakes noted and provide some additional, albeit unnecessary, insights.

@Champagne Brown: as someone who reads and writes Hebrew, there is no letter “J” resident to the Hebrew Alef-Bet. Nor is there in Aramaic that I’m aware of. Theoneandonly was correct in the Romanization of the Hebrew name for Jesus and the Greek translation, Yeshua. In Hebrew it’d be written as:
ישוע
Three quick hints for Hebrew; read from right to left, the name of the letter is the sound it makes and vowels aren’t normally present unless there are Nikkudot or the strange dots you may see from time to time. Knowing that, the letters are Yud, Shin, Vav (this one is a vowel under specific circumstances) and Ayin (makes no sound). The closest sound to a J would be from a Gimel or the letter ג ; it makes a sound like the G in grape 99.9% of the time. The only exception I’m aware of is for the English word Jeep, since it’s a brand. The Hebrew spelling of the word is grammatically incorrect in Hebrew since it is being translated from English to Hebrew.

Theoneandonly was comprehensive in his responses provided and his analysis is engaging. 613 is the correct number of “commandments”; to clarify they are a compilation of constraints and restraints. In other words, must do, cannot do. One area that’s likely debatable but a point to consider is that Judaism is 5779 years old by our count. Ostensibly, the era of Jesus was around 3761 years after the creation of Judaism. A finite point, to be certain. We do know, as T.O.O astutely mentioned, that Jesus came into being around 2019 years ago.

I’m not here to argue the merits of one belief system vs another; I will say that lovelyxxxo’s explanation of a temple being where she feels it to be is wholly in line with how we Jews think. We are engaged in a daily conversation with the almighty. For a primer, watch the opening scene of “Fiddler on the Roof” where Tevye is having a conversation with God about his horse coming up lame.

To the OP’s original question: As a dude that goes to temple weekly, but hasn’t drank the entire Dixie cup of kool-aid; no, I don’t sweat. I’ve made my peace with where I am destined to end up.

My ¥2
-Sarin

[1andonlyboardman]

I must say, you all have some fascinating conversations. I’m normally a lurker, but I’ll pop out of the shell here and there and kill a thread. I feel semi-obligated in this case. Primary purpose is to correct some mistakes noted and provide some additional, albeit unnecessary, insights.

@Champagne Brown: as someone who reads and writes Hebrew, there is no letter “J” resident to the Hebrew Alef-Bet. Nor is there in Aramaic that I’m aware of. Theoneandonly was correct in the Romanization of the Hebrew name for Jesus and the Greek translation, Yeshua. In Hebrew it’d be written as:
ישוע
Three quick hints for Hebrew; read from right to left, the name of the letter is the sound it makes and vowels aren’t normally present unless there are Nikkudot or the strange dots you may see from time to time. Knowing that, the letters are Yud, Shin, Vav (this one is a vowel under specific circumstances) and Ayin (makes no sound). The closest sound to a J would be from a Gimel or the letter ג ; it makes a sound like the G in grape 99.9% of the time. The only exception I’m aware of is for the English word Jeep, since it’s a brand. The Hebrew spelling of the word is grammatically incorrect in Hebrew since it is being translated from English to Hebrew.

Theoneandonly was comprehensive in his responses provided and his analysis is engaging. 613 is the correct number of “commandments”; to clarify they are a compilation of constraints and restraints. In other words, must do, cannot do. One area that’s likely debatable but a point to consider is that Judaism is 5779 years old by our count. Ostensibly, the era of Jesus was around 3761 years after the creation of Judaism. A finite point, to be certain. We do know, as T.O.O astutely mentioned, that Jesus came into being around 2019 years ago.

I’m not here to argue the merits of one belief system vs another; I will say that lovelyxxxo’s explanation of a temple being where she feels it to be is wholly in line with how we Jews think. We are engaged in a daily conversation with the almighty. For a primer, watch the opening scene of “Fiddler on the Roof” where Tevye is having a conversation with God about his horse coming up lame.

To the OP’s original question: As a dude that goes to temple weekly, but hasn’t drank the entire Dixie cup of kool-aid; no, I don’t sweat. I’ve made my peace with where I am destined to end up.

My ¥2
-Sarin

I stand corrected on the 5000 vs 3761 years.

Thanks for your insight.

[928man]

Wow, there are some really intelligent perverts on here lol.