Ask any Israeli if they regret building one.
Ask any Israeli if they regret building one.
How does the wall stop Airplanes ?
Student never leaves
Tourist never leaves.
What’s the stats on illegals that over stayed compared to snuck in ?
Will we also build a wall in the Canadian border ?
Will smugglers start using ocean entry?
What about tunnels.?
Just how much is the true cost of this wall ?
And
What is the expectations on illegal decline ?
Well, that proves my point: it is a waste. Pay for it and have to pay even more to outsource to others. But than again, they probably stick it to the U.S. of A. as Defense budget stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by gfejunkie
Thanks again for the link. Barriers like these of late are not remembered fondly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovinglifeinaustin
I don't think the same response will be given here.Quote:
Originally Posted by gfejunkie
No, I’m not contributing, but I think it’s a great idea. Let the deplorables waste their money on the idea a useless boondoggle. It’s all a fraud anyway. Funds donated to the Federal government can’t be earmarked for a specific purpose, but go into general revenue, in any event.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/20/border...llions-raised/
But that’s less money in the hands of bad guys to support Republican office seekers.
in my thought processes, the concern is that trump is focusing on ONE solution to the bigger problem of immigration and security.
instead of saying "let's work to control who comes in to our country", he seems to be thinking that a wall will solve the immigration problem. remember he used to say (paraphrased) "our country is so messed up. only i can fix it!"
that's what we get when we toss critical thinking aside and focus on quick unexamined solutions.
but he is kinda smart. it's just not clear to me what his end game is. sink the stock market cos he shorted it? create major chaos so that he can declare martial law? screw up the country so bad he asks russia and china to "save" us. i dont know what his end game is.
that's what his rabid base insisted Obama would do.. create chaos and declare martial law, so Trump would not take his place as President. absolute poppycock. Trump has lied continuously since day one, and his false Inauguration numbers.. his end game is publicity, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by pmdelites
Ok, so what will the wall cost? It is estimated to cost around 25 Billion, but being government funded we can all probably agree it will most likely be over budget, so say 30-35 Billion.
There is a section of wall in San Diego that the Democrats approved and already built many years ago in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, when they ironically were saying the very exact things about immigration as Trump is saying today (please research them and see what they were saying). Anyway it is being reported that section of wall has stopped 90+% of the illegal crossings into San Diego area, hence why almost all of the caravan that were waiving their country’s flags (not the US flag) that we all watched on the news is still stuck in Tijuana. Don’t see it on the news much anymore since it was stopped.
One could say that 90% is a pretty good number for a small section of a fairly good wall built. Imagine an even better and longer wall, what that could potentially stop. Most of all the other border fencing is very low budget and easily breached. In all honesty that was probably the intent, make it look like the politicians tried but make it so people could easily get through.
But let’s lower the 90% for the San Diego wall down to just 50% stoppage of illegal crossings. Just 50% improvement will save the American tax payers around $64 Bilion from just welfar and social services spending in just 10 years. That alone would pay for 2 walls, so if you really look at it the wall would pay for itself with just this alone. Imagine the number if it stopped 90+%...
Another cost savings and potential funding for a wall... it costs the American taxpayers 155-245 Billion annually (each and every year) just to make sure the illegal immigrants are taken care of and actually better off than many, many, many American Citizens! Stop that nonsense and we can have 5-8 walls in just 1 year! But since we only need 1 good wall, think of all the wonderful things that saved money could do for our American citizens in need, our inner cities, our schools, our infrastructure, our taxes, our opiate addiction, our national debt...
We already do all the heavy lifting and pay for most of the UN aid anyway so how would that cost us much if anything to have them help root out tunnels? Like Israel, why not have the armed military positioned along the border wall? Stopping just 50% would more than pay for the wall, the maintenance, and the military men and women! It pays for itself and then some.
The awesome Coast Guard does their best to stop all the boats coming in, sure a few get past but they are pretty dang good at what they do. With some of the money the wall could be saving us we could fund them a lot more and they could do even a better job.
Sure a few small planes get through. But take some of the excesss savings the wall would be providing and invest in better radar and intelligence and some fighter jet mite, and that number would drastically go down.
Since 1972 the government has built over 3000 miles of “sound walls” along our highways to protect nearby home owners and apartment renters and businesses from traffic noise. These walls cost about 2 Million a mile which is right around 6 Billion. If the government can spend 6 Billion to protect us from “traffic noise” why can’t they spend 5 Billion or even 30 Billion to protect our borders, our lives, our livelihoods, our opiate addiction, our national debt?
If walls do not work...are all our prisoners staying in our prisons voluntarily?
If you don’t think the wall will work let’s see who a wall has worked for over time...
The Vatican
Israel
China
Belfast
Spain
Morocco
Cypres
Hungary
Greece
Turkey/Syrian boarder
Saudi Arabia
India-Bangladesh
And 60+ other countries.
Walls also seem to work very well for...
Celebrities
Millionaires
Billionaires
Prisons
Large Companies and Corporations
Businesses
Private residences
Apartment and Condo Complexes
Military bases
Area 51
So if you are really against the border wall...what about tearing down your walls/fences and removing any and all of your security measures, and keep your doors unlocked all of the time day and night. None of us would ever do that so why should we do that with our Nation and leave our borders wide open and unprotected?
Let’s do immigration the legal way, the right way, the affordable way, the way our great great grandparents, great grandparents, grandparents, and our mothers and fathers did it. We have a fair and balanced legal immigration process and those that follow the rule of law are welcomed and have the potential for a great life. Those that cut the line and do not want to follow the rule of law and think we should pay them to be here, is illegal and just wrong and you know it. You may not admit it but you know it is wrong. All are welcome the legal way.
Pretty sure we all would get a little cranky, maybe even down right pissed, if we were standing in a very long slow moving line at Disney on a hot summer day and a few rowdy teenagers or a large family decided to cut line and expected us to let them and even buy them a lemonade and a picture at the end of the ride. What’s the difference really with cutting in on the immigration line? Let’s corridor off the border and get everyone in line to come in the right way.
Who doesn’t have a wall and how are they doing? France, England, Germany...
Why would we ever need a Canadian wall?
Anyway just some more thoughts to chew on. I am pretty sure some of us will have to agree to disagree, but that doesn’t mean we still can’t be friends.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
Goofy, I think the thing we should be chewing on is being good neighbors.
Don't foster a foreign government that represses their people.
That way, they won't have a reason to seek a "land of the free."
These arguments get funnier all the time.
To those who are against a wall I have to ask why. Not to long ago the Democrats wanted one, but now that Trump wants one it is racist and will not work. But if nothing else a wall does do one very specific thing - establish a clear line of where one country ends and another begins. It does not need to be super high tech, heck as long as it is well manned it wouldn't even need to be very big. A 10 ft tall concrete barrier wall would be large enough to facilitate signage in multiple languages saying "keep off, violators will be shot". The have outposts with armed agents patrolling the ”friendly” side. And to please all the gun haters those agents could be armed with rubber bullets and emergency only live rounds. But yes it would need to be manned and maintained.
Solution number 2: is much cheaper does not require hardly any maintenance or manning but could be very very messy, especially with caravans. And that solution is dense minefields. Ironically this solution with less manning would be the most effective combating the tunnels. If a mine goes off on the surface the shock wave then weakens the tunnel and eventually collapses. Now yes mines are very messy and very lethal, but they are also very effective.
Third solution: Annex Mexico and every Central American country down to and through Panama. The Panama borderline is much smaller and if we annexed those countries their citizens would be US citizens, the feds would have legal jurisdiction to wage war on the cartels. Annex them as territories of the US, give them non-voting representation in the House and they can elect their own local governments. Do this and nobody would care about homelessness, hungry children or lack of adequate healthcare because they ignore ignore those issues here now.
Now here is a band-aid for any butt-hurt snowflake: These "solutions" are just meant as comedy, jokes, not meant to be taken seriously. I do not advocated violence and even though the 3rd one does not specifically call for violence it would incite a war(s). I do however believe that there is a bigger problem that does not get addressed and that is: Don't talk about a problem without offering a solution. So for anyone who says a wall will not stop illegal immigration and drugs coming across the southern border - WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION? Remember my 3 solutions are JOKES, I happen to believe that the wall will not stop it but will hamper it. And as far as visa overstays that is a different issue all together. If someone came here with a visa then they were documented and did come into the country LEGALLY, they should be fined and allowed to reapply for extensions (and if denied deported).
The US Border Patrol wants it. That's good enough for me.
Why does everyone act as if illegals only come in from Mexico? That wall isn't going to stop a thing
Goofy, what happened to the promise that Mexico will fully pay for the wall??? Admit you knew that was a lie from the jump.
Also, you didn't answer the question of why we don't build one along Canada? Is it because you think it's citizens aren't a threat
Here's a couple of links for you Goofy:
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...51e80e37cfa5b2
https://canadiancentreforaddictions....use-in-canada/
Canada has a huge drug problem and take a wild guess Goofy of how over 95% of their illegal drugs gets into Canadian streets??? Oh yes, through the U.S- so perhaps Canada should build a wall and have Trump pay for it-see how well that works.
Mr. Wellendowed, we can agree to disagree and still have a friendly discussion on the topic to hear and take in all points of view. We all see things differently and believe different things and for sure interpret what we hear and/or read differently. We are not only diverse in culture/s but in thoughts. Open discussions and listening to all sides is how we learn and grow as a person. We may not agree and we may not be able to change the other persons mindset, but we can still talk to each other as friends. Heck if we all agreed on everything it would be a little boring.
From the start, the very first time it was said, I never took it as Mexico was going to pay for the wall directly, as that would be absurd to think so. I had several discussions with my mother on this topic, she interrupted what she was hearing in the very bias news she chooses to listen to, as the Mexican people in some sort of slave labor way would be forced to build the wall...how she interpreted that from what was actually being said I will never know. I did take it from the first time said, as from the billions we would be saving in the much better America First trade deal with Mexico, would be what could and should be funding the wall. There was an 800 billion trade deficit with Mexico...we we supplementing them 800 billion dollars in the old trade deal...800 billion, that was a bad deal for us big league. But I also later started to see that the hundreds of billions saved from social services and taking care of all the hundreds of thousands to millions of illegal immigrants each and every year, would and could pay for the wall several times over as well as maintain it and provide people to patrol it, plus help with our stuff like our major drug problem here at home. So it could be interpreted or seen as Mexico is paying for the wall. All depends on how you want to look at it.
Are the Canadian people a threat? I do not see thousands upon hundreds of thousands of illegal Canadian immigrants, or even democratic funded Canadian caravans crashing our northern Canadian border and when they get here expecting us to pay for everything they need or want. Or when they can’t get across the border start demanding that we fund them 50k each to go back home. I may be wrong here but just not seeing it.
In regard to the drug addiction in Canada. It is very sad, and just as sad that it is probably the same or even worse here in the USA. That stuff is just too easy to get a hold of and way too addicting and a lot of very bad people willing to get our kids and family addicted to it, only to profit in millions and billions on our kids and family members destruction. There should be no leniency or any mercy for a drug dealer. The two articles you provided point out that Canada is itself a huge producer of drugs and the main suppliers of Canadian drug ingredients is China, India and Mexico. That it is brought in mainly through their airports and coastal water borders...not directly across the US/Canadian border. I am sure it is happening but not the 95% you point out. It says that fentanyl can be ordered online like a book.
I do not catch all of the news but I do not recall any MS13 Canadian gang members, or any illegal Canadians crashing through the northern border by the thousands daily, or any Canadians being deported multiple times over and coming back across our border illegally again and again and killing, or raping our citizens, or shooting our police officers, like that which just happened on Christmas. Perhaps the Canadian border is not as porous as our southern border and no need for a wall as of yet.
Because they are crossing the southern border by the thousands to tens of thousands daily...costing us 155 to 254 billion each and every year to make sure they are taken much better care then many, many, many of our own America Citizens. Let’s slow that entry number down and divert all that money saved to helping our own first and then helping others as we can.Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessK
So if they raise the $5Bn, how does it go to the project?
The gofundme page is a stunt.
Better chance at redemption by pledging it to a TV preacher. Errr, a different TV preacher.