hobby phones

I only see folks with a phone who can call or text to book. I will not see anyone without a phone. i sometimes get guy trying to book online but they do not have a phone. what women here see guys without phones and will book an appointment online without a phone call? I will recommend they contact you when i refuse to see them unless they call me or text me. how many guys here hobby without a phone and what ladies will see a guy without a phone? Is demanding a phone number to book a reasonable expectation?

^^^^^ In a word...YES it is a reasonable expectation. Oh that’s 6 words, okay, in 6 words. lol

Can't imagine trying without a phone. How would you notify them when you arrive, get the room number, etc. Maybe with someone I have seen a lot, but even then I have had her cancel the morning of the appointment. Suspect the person just does not want to use his RW phone when he hobbies. Should get a burner or app to help

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sue Nami

I only see folks with a phone who can call or text to book. I will not see anyone without a phone. i sometimes get guy trying to book online but they do not have a phone. what women here see guys without phones and will book an appointment online without a phone call? I will recommend they contact you when i refuse to see them unless they call me or text me. how many guys here hobby without a phone and what ladies will see a guy without a phone? Is demanding a phone number to book a reasonable expectation?

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I booked and met recently with AmberBritney and used the pm system here throughout the whole process.

I've seen clients thru PM only due to discretionary reasons. Of course, they are properly screened before we get that point but yes, it can be done with no issues. Especially in this age of cell phones when you get your email or PM's in a minute or two. Usually, it's married clients that prefer this type of communication. I've never had a problem with it.

I prefer you have a phone(text only) and I need to be able to correspond with you once you are where I have told you to go. I need to be able to guide you in the gates, tell you what building and what areas you can park so there is no towing. I do this is steps to make sure you are actually showing up.

I don't mind using private email as a form of contact but I will not send address/private details over the PM system on any board.

Burner phones are cheap and there are multiple free apps so there is really no excuse for not being able to contact via text.

In this day and age, there’s no reason not to have a hobby phone.

I very much agree with you Britttnay. I need phone contact to be able to ensure someone has arrived. I to go through a step process. I have to make sure my address is not just floating around.

I wished every man had a hobby phone, make our life easier is the gateway to safe & sexy fun. A good thread

No reason to not have an extra hobby phone or text/voice app.

You can do it with a physical hobby phone or you can use your main phone and just use a secure phone app for voice and/or text (the latter is preferable). Or you could use Skype. Or Google Voice. There are so many options to get yourself another number, securely, that you can use for texting or talking.

Most of the time it will be married guys that will definitely want a hobby number OR a hobby phone (and providers obviously). You really don't need an actual physical phone though to have multiple secure identities.

Let me tell ya something folks. Anyone who thinks having a physical hobby phone vs the many different methods of acquiring a virtual # & secure identity (which is arguably much better & has many security advantages for married men & providers) is mistaken.

I may put together an essay on the technical advantages of virtual vs physical, but that's not the point of this post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mathguy

I may put together an essay on the technical advantages of virtual vs physical, but that's not the point of this post.

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What would be nice is knowing the Apps that are the most safe, and secure. I currently use GV.

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Originally Posted by risn2theoccasion2

What would be nice is knowing the Apps that are the most safe, and secure. I currently use GV.

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I'd stay the furthest away from GV over all of them. Not only is google known for data collection in general (not specific to voice), but it also integrates with so many parts of all phones it's better to look at something else. Some google searches can provide lots of data on better apps, but for what it's worth, I'm a fan of Burner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by risn2theoccasion2

What would be nice is knowing the Apps that are the most safe, and secure. I currently use GV.

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I'll do a write up on this shortly. Not just apps but pros/cons, best methods, best practices.... :smile:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coitusmaximus

I'd stay the furthest away from GV over all of them. Not only is google known for data collection in general (not specific to voice), but it also integrates with so many parts of all phones it's better to look at something else. Some google searches can provide lots of data on better apps, but for what it's worth, I'm a fan of Burner.

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I have a few reasons I don't like the idea of a burner as well as a virtual option. However, I do agree about GV as a "possible" problem.

Not so much data collection that could be problematic, the real issue, which coitus mentioned, is the heavy integration in phone's.

So, if you are not highly technical, or at least very careful, you could have primary account(s) & "anonymous" account(s) bleeding over into each other such that you accidentally expose info you don't want others seeing (like wife, kids, gf, friends....).

I'll make another reply on this when I have time to fully explain as well as do some additional research. :thumb:

BEST VOICE/TEXT APPS: (for security/hobby)
Notes - I am only including apps that allow you to obtain a traditional phone#, allowing texting, calling AND allow you to call/txt numbers that don't require the app on the recipient end. It's also Android specific but most of it will carry over to iPhone or the same apps are available. Some apps will cost for free calls to non-app users (I don't differentiate though in this article).

• FreedomPop https://www.freedompop.com/
• Signal Private Messenger https://signal.org/
• TextNow https://www.textnow.com/
• Textfree https://www.pinger.com/text-free/

MAYBE APPS:
Notes - So long as you are aware and are careful with your data and locking things down.

• Google Voice (main concern is the huge integration of Google accounts in most phones, so it's "possible" you could inadvertently share sensitive data that you don't want seen to your primary Google account - if you were not careful)

NOT ADVISED APPS: (not for hobbying/security/privacy)
Notes - These either have privacy issues or they require the recipient to use the app - which is not good for a hobby phone obviously.

• WhatsApp (now that WhatsApp is owned by Facebook and they are under terrible scrutiny about their privacy policies, data collection methods, etc... I would not use this app for sensitive material)
• Snapchat (can't call other users unless they have the app - no real phone number - concerns about privacy)
• FB Messenger (same as previous item)
• Telegram (can only call recipients who have the app - no real phone number)

SECURITY ISSUES & ASSOCIATED TOPICS

Most of the items in my list of best apps, whether free or paid, have extremely secure communications, fully encrypted end-to-end, and they utilize a worldwide network to mask activity so they are very secure and there is little to no chance of eavesdropping. These apps allow you to register a real phone number and use it to call or text anyone in the world with a phone number (just like any landline phone). Some of them will be free if the recipient is using the app as well, others with require subscription plans.

*** VERY IMPORTANT ***
As a word or precaution and to enhance security my advice would be that if you encounter an app which wants a real number to "verify" your identity then I would register a Google Voice number first or use my existing "secure" one (say you are already using one as a hobby number, for example).

If you need a new one, or don't have one, just create a new anonymous email account somewhere, such as Yahoo, Gmail, or better yet, ProtonMail, and register your Google Voice number using that email. Now you can proceed with registering your fully secure private phone number using that Google Voice# to verify your identity. This is a second layer of precaution.

Don't use your main number or your landline unless you really aren't worried about a wife, gf, or law enforcement (that last one about LE I threw in there but frankly that's totally laughable in virtually all cases - a spouse, friend, teenage kids, girlfriend, associate/co-worker, etc... seeing your stuff is the real issue).

So, now that this is done you have a new "secret/private" hobby number registered with one of the better apps above, using your GV# to verify you (or some other online number you were able to obtain using no public accounts/numbers), and you are now ready to use your "hobby phone/virtual identity".

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OTHER IMPORTANT SECURITY ISSUES YOU SHOULD CONSIDER

It would also be a very good idea to make sure that your text/calling app, whichever you choose, is not openly shown on your phone.

Obviously you should lock your phone down with a solid PIN, password, fingerprint, or iris lock, but you also don't want a wife or kids or co-workers to see this on your phone and just click it and start snooping. So, make sure you also secure the entry to the app. You can do this by installing app lockers such as CleanMaster (CM), AppLock, etc... from the Google and Apple stores.

In addition, it would be a good idea to use a new UI launcher tool. On Android you can use things like Nova Launcher (my favorite), Lawnchair, One Launcher, etc.... These allow deep customization, totally reformat the UI of your phone, they are very cool. Many of them are free. The most important thing is they allow you to "hide" apps that you don't want visible to other users.

If you don't go for the new launcher tool then you will want to go into your settings and make sure you hide the app manually. You can do this on most phones by stopping the app and disabling it manually, some other phones or versions of Android will also allow a hide option. Of course, this can get tedious and it's not nearly as good as the something like Nova Launcher + AppLock used together for bulletproof security (no way your wife or girlfriend or any colleague, friend, etc will ever see it unless you unlock it and show them - they won't even know it's there at all).

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BURNER PHONE VS VIRTUAL IDENTITY/PHONE NUMBER

Burner PROS:
-Totally anonymous
-Can use cash to buy phone
-No possible way to trace it back to you (no making a mistake of oops I forgot to lock this or whatever - UNLESS you drop it, leave somewhere - see CONS below)

Burner CONS:
-Phone usually isn't very good unless you invest in a nice one
-Voice and SMS quality and options on most burner phone networks are typically very bad
-Worst of all though, forgetting to lock an app or hide it is bad, but forgetting to hide your physical burner phone, or your wife finding it, is EVEN worse :shocked:

Virtual Identity/App PROS:
-No way you could accidentally leave the "burner" phone in the car, on the bed, nightstand, somewhere someone could find (b/c one doesn't exist).
-Much better quality. The quality of your main cell/wifi/4g service and the full features of primary/premium level phone.
-Encrypted communication using the apps above. Many options to even cause them to self destruct message and voice calls/logs/VM's after a designated period of time and much more.

Virtual Identity/App CONS:
-Not 100% totally anonymous (very, very, very close if you follow my instructions above) but it's not the same as paying cash at Best Buy for a $50 burner phone. This is really the only downside (if any).

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You could even run your calls/texts from whichever app you choose through an additional layer of security by downloading TOR for Android/iPhone and connecting to the a TOR network. Use the ORFOX TOR browser app while connected to TOR to make all your browsing totally anonymous (incognito mode is not anonymous whatsoever, it just doesn't leave a breadcrumb trail that your gf/wife/kids could see - that's all, nothing more). ORFOX/TOR also uses DuckDuckGo by default (this is your best option for a search engine that doesn't collect data or try to track you). I'm not going to do a write-up on TOR at this moment, but it's soooo easy to do:
-Install the TOR app
-Install ORFOX browser app
-Launch TOR and let it connect to a TOR node
-Now launch the ORFOX browser
-Start browsing away as you normally would inside the ORFOX browser in total anonymity

Not saying math is wrong, below is just drilling down for better protection.

VOICE/TEXT APPS: (for security)

Signal Private Messenger https://signal.org/

*This only works if both parties are using the application, otherwise is means jack s***


NOT ADVISED APPS: (not for hobbying/security/privacy)
These all fall into the same boat, they collect PII, such as your original phone number, telephony logs, messages, etc. and they will share them with LE with a subpoena.

As an example, this is directly from TextNow's privacy policy:

User communications: When you use our Services to make and receive telephone calls or send and receive messages (including voice and text messages, video, and pictures), we are required to collect telephony log information (telephone toll records) like your calling-party number, receiving-party number, forwarding numbers, time and date of calls and messages, duration of calls, routing information, and types of calls. Your messages are also collected.

The other listed apps below have the same or similar policies and are not safe to use if you're wanting security and privacy.

WhatsApp
Snapchat
FB Messenger
Telegram
Textfree
FreedomPop
Google Voice
TextNow (meationed above)


BURNER PHONES

In most use cases "burner phones" as people picture them won't do much to increase privacy or security. This is basically useful if you are trying to hide the activity from a significant other, not LE. These phones still have standard software, MAC addresses, and ping towers just like your regular phone would, all which are trackable. Flat out 90% of people purchasing these don't know how to properly setup the device to use as a burner which would require at minimum a modified OS to allow spoofing the MAC Address, GPS location, etc.

As a correction:

To run other applications network traffic through the TOR network, use ORBOT, not ORFOX or TOR

For browsing, utilizing the TOR network, Andriod users can either use TOR for Andriod, or ORFOX. iOS users closest options is probably Onion Browser.

In short:

If you're using your RW phone, best options are ORBOT & Signal for text/phone, Tor for Andriod, or ORFOX for web stuff. iOS users, just Signal for text/phone. Onion Browser for web based stuff.

Burner phone is the same. If you don't know how to set one up properly, just use ORBOT & Signal apps for text/phone. Tor for Andriod or ORFOX for web stuff.

Stay away from the virtual stuff, especially Google Voice. Setting up an actual useful virtual app requires knowledge about crypto-currency, and making annoymous purchases that many may not have.

Extra Tip:
Get a app that can spoof your GPS location, disable all google location history and sharing, disable improved accuracy for location.

Personal opinion:

Conduct as much of the activities online as possible. Use a VPN or Tor Browser to get on the internet (one or the other, don't mix the two), establish a secure email account i.e. Protonmail, use that for accounts on hobbying sites. Ensure that any communications are trashed and deleted after they're no longer needed. # & address can be exchanged using Signal.

Information, use it or don't :goodnight:

So the options and updates that _desta pointed out are not bad at all. I'd like to clarify certain things though (particularly with regard to my post - he did make many good points).

Signal actually can be used without the receiver needing the app, you can call users who don't have it, but, yes, you will not get full encryption (that's all). But you could still connect to TOR/ORBOT and get good network anonymity anyway. The encryption is not so much the issue for most people which is why I didn't bother to point out that small detail of Signal Private Messenger when calling people who don't have the app. Most people are more concerned about a wife, gf, kids, co-worker, friend, business associate, other family.... picking up their phone and seeing calls or texts openly being made with, shall we say, "questionable content"...hehe :giggles:

As far as the privacy policies goes that's going to be hard to get around anyway just due to various federal as well as international laws (depending on locale). You simply aren't going to find many ways to bulletproof something that some form of LE (no particular agency) can't subpoena under any conditions whatsoever. But, see, that's why I pointed out that LE is the least of all concerns. In fact, I put it so low for *most* of these communities, like OH2, that I would call it inconsequential. If you really have LE situations or are the target of something like that you already have much bigger problems. That's why I didn't bother going on about privacy policies or researching which were best. You will not find many where there is zero data collection. It's very hard.

Yes, you can fully encrypt, make your traffic anonymous, its source, etc.. and hide essentially everything BUT to do it with that or precision and without mistakes is quite frankly far beyond the scope of any simple article or forum posting. However, again, you really don't need anything near *that* level to simply be anonymous and private to the point that family, friends, kids, wife, gf, parents, co-workers, anyone who picks up your phone b/c you left it somewhere, etc... will never know a thing about your hobby life/business. Nah.
They will have no way to know it's even on your phone, that it exists, or how to open it (even if somehow they found about it) so long as you were to follow my instructions (and the great tips & points desta added).

I agree with the GPS part too. That was a great tip btw if you don't want any family/friends to be able to look into that history! Once again, not really an issue regarding LE though. This is not why you have a hobby phone in the first place. You have it to hide it from your regular family & friends (whether you are a hobbyist or a provider). I'm going to keep pointing this out too, so just keep with me :wink:

I do not agree completely on the virtual phone/identity part. That's the one piece I'm in disagreement with. You do not need to use crypto-currency to achieve anonymity. The idea that cash is somehow a supreme form of protecting yourself is severely overrated (particularly considering all the many things that most people are probably doing wrong already that would sink that ship - IJS). But, no, you do not have to go with crypto-currency. And even if you really want to "buy something", whether it's a physical phone, or a virtual service (like some of the apps that require payment for calls/phone#), you can still do that anonymously anyway. Just go buy a Visa/MC prepaid/gift card with "cash" and then use the Visa/MC card to purchase whatever you need. Totally anonymous. Same same. The problem is buying cash only and feeling protected, considering how many other things the average person is going to get wrong, is far from a bulletproof way to stay protected. That goes for whether it was simply family/kids/friends you were concerned about seeing it and even more so for LE (but again I think that's bordering on laughable b/c the level of effort needed for LE to even get involved if you just follow *most* of what I said, or desta, would be so insane that you are already in BIG trouble if you have that issue). Forget about LE.

I agree with most all the the other tips and ideas desta pointed out, just don't really agree on that crypto-currency/cash comment.

I'm also not so worried about Google Voice as a "backup number" (used only to verify the number you are going to register with whatever voice/txt app you choose to use). Some apps don't require that you provide any data or registration. Signal is one of those IIRC (which is why it's very much a good choice & popular for anonymity). However, even if you chose Freedompop, for example, and needed to use GV to "validate" your new Freedompop number with a "real" number?
Simply make sure you connect via VPN/TOR node first, use a ProtonMail account, register your GV (or some other), and it's as good as completely anonymous now (with respect to using it only to validate a new number on your chosen private voice/text app). If you are worried about LE at that point, once again, you already have far too many issues and that ship is sunk anyway. You are done if it's gotten to that level or something is going on that you have that kind of heat being drawn. Oh, and never ever use the GV# again. It was only there to validate against a real number with your chosen voice/txt app. And, again, recapitulating, you would only register that number via a secure email (i.e. Protonmail) while connected to a TOR node (I prefer this over VPN) but you can also run VPN over TOR.

I also agree with desta, more or less, about his comment, shown here: :thumb:
"In short:

If you're using your RW phone, best options are ORBOT & Signal for text/phone, Tor for Andriod, or ORFOX for web stuff. iOS users, just Signal for text/phone. Onion Browser for web based stuff.

Burner phone is the same. If you don't know how to set one up properly, just use ORBOT & Signal apps for text/phone. Tor for Andriod or ORFOX for web stuff."

The only part I don't fully agree with is the part in the original quote just below that section regarding crypto-currency & GV. However, I hope I gave plenty of info about why & how it *could* be problematic. I'll agree there. I'm just not really concerned about LE. That isn't a real issue for the basic "hobby community" hobbyist or provider & even were it? Most simply don't know enough to not make any mistakes and already screwed if it goes to that point. *shrug* :/


SUMMARY

I agree on the majority of what desta has said and added. Lots of really good advice. Especially the GPS thing. Also about TOR and some other items. Some stuff I'm a bit in disagreement on but this is mostly good stuff buddy :twothumbs:

The main message that I'd like to impart is that LE is really not your biggest issue. If it get's that far then probably an easy 95%+ (if not closer to 98-99%+) simply have already made too many mistakes and they are going to get caught (whatever "caught" means in that LE context for that person). Though the relevance of that is low in these communities.

Mostly you use a hobby phone so that you keep business separate, private, so that people don't see your dealings (hobbyist or provider), kids, wife, friends, maybe even some providers husbands (??? heh, hey, it happens people), other family, and so on. This is all true to one degree or another for both hobbyist and providers.

So, follow my basic rules, also things that desta points out above and you are GTG! Though I have to keep mentioning that I really don't think you need to scrutinize privacy policies quite that deeply or worry about logs, etc... or LE too much. You are PLENTY covered in that case for all real world scenarios whether it's burner or virtual phone#. Either one.

I don't prefer the burner personally b/c it's too easy to misplace, what if you left it on the floor and wife picks it up (??), what if you leave it in a store on accident and they call your house or wife, or she goes back inside and the guy says, "oh ma'am I think your husband dropped this...." :shocked: What if kids find it and say, "hey mom what's this?". Uh-oh! Boom. :shocked: The virtual option has zero way she will every known it's even there (or any other family, kids, friends, yadda yadda). Best option IMO. The LE issues are just not significant enough and you would be screwed already either way whether burner vs virtual (either one - also for many of the reasons _desta pointed out too).
Just do the basic stuff we have both outlined and use either a burner phone or a virtual phone on your main phone (such as Signal or Freedom or whatever).

Use TOR (yes, desta made the right correction about ORBOT - smartphone version of TOR project for Android - that was my bad) and ORFOX for browsing online.

Nice write-up and additions desta. Thanks! :peace:

STOP
this is NOT a lecture class !!!!
Discussion is back & forth. Long, drawn out, encyclopedia dialogue is a dominating over-kill that doesn't give anyone a chance to Add anything to the discussion.

Sawy Uni. Was my personal hope to get a sticky up as a tech guide (well start of one). That's why I began the first "guide" post after risn2 asked. I think it should be a best practices guide that whole community can use.
Sorry it got long between me & desta. Honestly this can be highly technical to do it all correctly, so it's hard to just say, "use this & do this".
Sorry luv. Just kinda needs to be a full fledged guide. :hug:

ohhh Dear !!!!Sticky Worthy
retract my comment
Beating myself up for not cheering on my STICKY WORTHY nerd:imsorry:

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