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Thread: Asking for a menu. Isn’t this incriminating?

  1. #16
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Using acronyms or various euphemisms doesn't change the fact that [strictly speaking] the exchange of money directly for sexual activities is considered illegal in nearly all of the US.

    That being said, that's not really a problem in itself. Proving that someone solicited the exchange of money OR something of value for sexual services in it's strictest form is exceedingly difficult with exception to a few scenarios. Those scenarios are namely: getting caught propositioning a cop on the street/car, or, busted in some form of surveillance/sting operation. There are maybe a few other very similar situations but basically it all boils down to someone being caught on some sort of audio or video surveillance or by the testimony of a police officer.

    However, absent those situations, it's almost impossible to undoubtedly prove that someone agreed (simply) to exchange sexual favors for something of value. In fact, even in some of the situations above, it can still be terribly difficult to prove.

    Why? Because technically speaking sex with anyone is quid pro quo. That's a Latin saying which means quite literally, "something for something" or "a thing for a thing". More commonly, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.".

    All sexual acts, sexual relationships, and for that matter all relationships, are based on the exchange of something of value to each person. That's the entire point of any relationship, sexual or not.

    When you go on a date with someone, a regular date, the man may pay for dinner, drinks, entertainment, and more. You may have a great evening together. You both enjoy each other's company. He likes her brains and beauty. She likes his financial ability, swagger, and handsomeness. You both like the same movies. She is super kind and compassionate which captivates him. He is super funny and gregarious and makes her laugh which she desperately desires.

    If sex is involved at any point now (using the strictest definition of prostitution) these two people have committed a crime. Things of value were exchanged. Many of them. And in this case they were exchanged for sexual favors. In fact, some of them were directly financial and cash based. Even though this was a totally "normal civvy date". All relationships share this basic dynamic.

    Okay, that having been said, is what I've described a really sugar coated form of circumlocution to get around the heart of what prostitution is about? Sure. Is it just a bunch of fancy elocution? Yes. It is. But any good lawyer would use this and it's effective because it happens to be the truth.

    Prostitution is very poorly defined and even with a more rigorous definition it still doesn't escape the same core issues.

    Point being? If you are careful, actually "proving" that a true form of prostitution, on either side, occurred is pretty difficult, if you are smart, except in a couple situations mentioned earlier.

    -MG

  2. #17
    Intelligence Rules Universal's Avatar
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    Explain your logic to corrupt cops when they arrest ladies

  3. #18
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Universal View Post
    Explain your logic to corrupt cops when they arrest ladies
    Yeah, I get you Universal. Totally. I'm not saying people don't get arrested. Corrupt cops or not, unfortunately. Just like if you know you didn't commit X, Y, or Z crime, but a cop believes they saw you, or that it was you, then you cannot legally resist arrest no matter how innocent you are.

    A good example would be illegal search/seizure, or illegal entry without a warrant, by the cop, but if you resist, or try to stop them, then yeah you are going to be worse off than if you had just let them arrest you.

    But if you really aren't some drugged out and obvious streetwalker, homeless, etc... then you should think about exercising your 7th amendment right to a trial by a jury of peers. Everyone has this right (to demand their criminal charge be judged by a jury instead of the "court"). If you really are even halfway decent, like not an obvious streetwalker, homeless, drugged out.... you would have at least a decent chance of getting off (obviously it does depend on the scenario).

    If you did get exonerated from the initial arrest (yea, unfortunately as citizens we can't do anything about legal or illegal arrest - I agree) you could file a suit for damages against the county, or the city, or the officer.

    I totally agree with you though. You absolutely cannot argue with or resist a cop intent on arresting (whether the arrest is filthy illegal or not) without making your situation much worse. That initial arrest doesn't ultimately mean you are guilty though. IJS.

  4. #19
    Intelligence Rules Universal's Avatar
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    the tables are turning my love, the rich men are targets of bigger charges now days.
    First it was the Backpage owner arrested and just recently it was Kraft. In my opinion, it is far worse for the media to ruin a rich mans career because he creates jobs for those in need.
    Media smear compaigns to increase views for profit.
    News that is tabloid trash

  5. #20
    Verified Companion Companion Italia's Avatar
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    Agree 100% with Dr.G
    Once gent is screened & cleared, I have no issues informing him of menu. If gent gives me a hard time instead of his hard cock then I just direct him to read reviews. I'll make it difficult!

    XoXo Itsa

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Grey View Post
    Why not screen the client first then discuss menu? Should never give out info before then unless posted on your sig line or website. If his references check out, give rates for time and maybe a list of things you will do or not do that may be accomplished within agreed upon time (ie MSOG for hr apts or longer only; Only apts for 1 hr or more for greek, etc.). Have it ready to be copy and paste. Update as needed. Never talk about activities unless screened though. Works both ways when making sure the provider is legit.
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  6. #21
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    To just further the discussion, here's the law in Texas:
    (a) A person commits an offense if, in return for receipt of a fee, the person knowingly:

    Offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct; or
    Solicits another in a public place to engage with the actor in a sexual conduct for hire.

    (b) A person commits an offense if, based on the payment of a fee by the actor or another person on behalf of the actor, the person knowingly:

    Offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct; or
    Solicits another in a public place to engage with the actor in sexual conduct for hire.

    An offense is established under Subsection (a) regardless of whether the actor is offered or actually receives the fee. An offense is established under Subsection (b) regardless of whether the actor or another person on behalf of the actor offers or actually pays the fee.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-town View Post
    I hate it when you ask about activities and she says, i don't talk about that over the phone. Then you thank her and move one which she replies, sooooo are you scheduling or what!? Which I reply, not at this time and she calls you a time waster and she has blocked you, which is a relief to me.

    I also am bugged when I'm asked, are you affiliated with any law enforcement agency. I stopped trying to explain that they don't have to say yes, or else every undercover cop would get his or her brains blown out all the time.
    i know my blogs are NOT up and working right now on my website but i have the written version backed up in my word document that i can personally send to you..."Debunking The Myth Behind:Are You A Cop" lmao....
    the reason why i finally choose to to put this out, was because that myth, gives alot of ppl a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY....and can lead your tail into getting straight up busted!!!! especially in these post fosta times. i also had gotten tired of being asked something that just not even was worth asking, being that it was so many ppl during that time asking me,m yes it gotten to the point of being annoying lol

    also, it was last oct when i had started looking into both, about asking if you are a cop as well as texas prostitution laws, including all sex laws. I have also been very blessed to have been able getting to know Mike on twitter, the Porn Law attorney. he had also just a couple of months ago, gave me a great gift and that was giving me 18 links to read up on, to learn and know...actually he had told me to do this before i made a another change to my website.

    which i really dont want to admit it but its truth so...i havent stop to read all of them with all the commotion that i had been going thru...anyways....by no means am i claiming to completely understand everything that i have been reading as well as having discussed the Mike, the porn law attorney...

    im gonna break it as quick as i can and as easy as i can

    from the links on congress.gov that i have been able to read and to grasp along with everythinig thing else....

    the word "construed" plays ONE HUGE ROLE in all of this....
    any activities that can be "construed" (in another words anything that you can put a "little twist" to it...therefore gonna make it al illegal anyways...in playing a part of any having to do with "sex trafficking" yes thats exactly what i said, being that NOW....any thing to do with prostution is now in the classification as SEX TRAFFICKING....therefore GIVING THE SAME SENTENCES AS SEX TRAFFICKING!!! which can hold up to 10 FED TIME!

    now, let me explain "any activites" for you...
    this includes ANYTHING HAVING TO DO AND THAT CAN PINPOINTED IN TAKING PART OF "SEX TRAFFICKING" i can remember reading the example of ....and btw freaking out....THIS INCLUDE GOING TO ATM BEFORE YOU SEE A PROVIDER, PULLING MONEY OUT OF THAT ATM, PIN POINTING YOUR TIME AS WELL....THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU PULL OF YOUR ACCOUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    "THAT VERY SCARY WORD "CONSTRUED" APPLIES IN THE ABOVE SCENERIO BTW!!!"

    GETTING FREAKY YET???? IN A BAD WAY THAT IS????????
    OK so lets break this down EVER FARTHER OK

    SOLICTING and WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS
    ok....from the examples given that i have read...
    it is illegal to talk about ANY SERVICES THAT CAN BE CONSTRUED (TWISTED INTO BEING MADE TO LOOK) AS PROSTIUTION, WITH IT NOW BEING STATED "AS CONTRUED TO BE SEX TRAFFICKING"
    these activities can include anything....lap danceing ...so dont say that either btw,....anything that can be twisted and made into "APPEARING" to have made ANY AGREEMENTS of ANY KIND OF PAYMENTS ....PAYMENTS CAN INCLUDE ANYTHING (EXAMPLE GIVEN...EVEN CUTTING THE GRASS!!!) AGREEMENTS CAN BE THE "SLIGHTEST "GLANCE AND PASSING LOOKS" BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE HAVE JUST MADE
    EVERYTHING TOTALLY ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I have also seen one client that i had screened...ONLY ONE CLIENT NOT FROM ECCIE OR HERE, actually from out of town....ONE PERSON HAS GONE ABOUT THINGS IN A WAY, THAT MADE IT ALLLLLLL PERFECTLY LEGAL...
    wanna know why????
    lol...took this person....NOT ONCE....BUT TWICE BEING BUSTED ON SOLICTING PROSTUTION CHARGERS....What did he do to make it all perfectly legal you ask???
    FIRST...HE WENT TO MY WEBSITE AND HE TOOK TIME OUT AND READ EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!
    by doing so, he learned that i have a weakness for chocolate candy bars...when he came in...acting like NOTHING OKAYYY....and he had presented me with TWO nice i think Dove chocolate candy bars, ya know the nice ones...we are talking reseeses here ok...just in case ....he had placed my donation half of the donation ...IN EACH ONE OF THE CANDY BARS...

    NEVER WAS ANY WORD EVERRR MENTIONED ABOUT MONEY NOR ANY KIND OF SERVICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    THE ONLY THING I HAD ASKED AND THAT I STILL DO ASK....IS "HOW LONG WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR VISIT FOR"
    This simple question...tells me what i need to know

    btw, as of recently...ive had some strange situtaions that had i NOT BEEN ON MY TOES...AND MY EMPATH SENSORS NOT GO OFF, WOULD NOT BE A GOOD SITUATION...i can tell you from my own personal experiences....they are after us girls, looking for slip ups!!!!!!!!!!!!

    not to mention and i screenshoted, on twitter the other day, and yall know that im not back on eccie...yet....still debating...
    i think it was like 5 or 6 girls that got popped from eccie...i dont know the details the only i took notice, was because someone was about helping out with someones rent...

    matter of fact, theres one specific person that contacted, that keep pushing and saying some odd things, said he was a member of eccie and had known when i was there....i contacted a provider after these stranger, off comments...so she could check for me on eccie....no post no nothing...a dummy account more or less....
    this person when pulled during the screening...had a list of OLD TER REVIEWS...hmmmm

    AGAIN THE OTHER DAY....im getting names...that are very common names,,,that you cant seem to pin point who is who...pulling up over 100 different ppl under that one name....prepaid phone number, cant pin point....e3t etc etc...ummmm....took notice thought....A LIST OF TER REVIEWS....hmmm

    now!!!!!!! these just AWWW A COUPLE/FEW MINOR EXAMPLES OF MY OWN PERSONAL DEALINGS...AND KNOWING (thank God for my empath sensors btw) and who is lieing to me, who is le, and who don't give a flying you know what and dont think that its important enough to do screening....PROVING REAL WORLD INFO AND NOT BE LIEING ABOUT SHIT!!!!!!!!!

    if you dont think any part of this does NOT IMPACT YOU! YOUR LIEING TO YOUR SELVES!!!!!1
    ONE PERSON ESPECAILLY A PROVIDER THAT ENDS UP GETTING BUSTED ....YALL DONT THINIK THAT "SHIT ROLLS DOWNHILL"
    NO MATTER HOW MUCH OR WHAT STEPS THAT I HAVE TAKEN TO KEEP TO MY WORD GIVEN WITHIN THIS HOBBY COMMUNITY, AS FAR AS CONFIDENTIALITY IS CONCERNED....THAT CLOUD ACT TOOK OF IT ALLL FOR ALL US....

    NOW IS ANY PART OF THIS SERIOUSNESS JUST MAY BE SINKING INTO THE HOBBIEST HEADS???? I SURELY HOPE SO...
    cuz it scares the living hell out of me,,,as it should scare the rest of everyone as well
    the vaguness that the terms of service and privacy policys that are now updated ....on everything and eeverwhere that we can go online etc yall better look at that sit!!! the reason for that vague explainations....
    go back to that ONE SCARY WORD "CONSTRUED"!!!!!!


    oh wait one of the most important things you hobbiesgt that just love to send us unsolicted dick pics and vids....well....The app "Bumble" has been pushing to make illegal in the state of texas illegal for any male to send unsolicated intimate body parts without first asking and gaining permission to do so from the female, or the female first intiatiating this kind of "sex offense" being its sexting...and PORN...involved...i havent heard any updates, as i havent been watching the news lately...i know that they were trying to put into law and in sept if being effective...also dont quote me on this...but i think if passed, it willa $500 fine...but i have to go back and look at what i got in my notes..to be sure....ummm for those who don't realize...doing this act in texas....

    is ALREADY ILLEGAL....LOL
    i just went real quick in my one drive and checked the notes i have....this act is under the texas obsenity laws...which btw i have copied and pasted into my one drive BOTH
    THE TEXAS OBSENITY LAWS AND PROSTIUTION LAWS WITH ALL THE PENIAL CODES THAT WERE BEFORE FOSTA/SESTA

    which most of what i explained was already law..lol

    umm also...ohhh yeaa. lol...today i was updating my web pages...on the last page thats named 'the more page" i have put not all but most of these links ALONG WITH THE PORN ATTORNEY WEBSITE LINK
    also including for the girls that may need this while in the business of doing your business formation like ive been in the process of doing for quite a while now...i i put up the links for trademark and copyrights so far..im NOT close to being done with all these links...
    though im not sure about putting up those 18 links of laws sthat Mike had given me that im supposed to be studing and learning...

    oh with those links being mentioned...just to give you an idea...did you know that the only two states that it is LEGAL to get paid to shoot any porn scenes is CA and New Hampshire!!!! That all other classify getting paid to shoot a porn scene...THIS INCLUDE THE MEN AS WELL...AS PROSTITUION!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
    JUST A HEAADS UP LMAO
    Last edited by Guest 052621-1; 04-17-2019 at 08:43 PM.

  8. #23
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    ive had clients when i was on eccie, not pay attention to my newest ads, back when i didnt have a website,,,,,they did not provide the correct donation at that time. please only use the reviews as a reference guide..cuz like now...i REFUSE TO GIVE MY NUMBER OUT ANYMORE but my reviews that are on eccie, have my number, for the providers that put in as much hard work as i personally do, spending just about evey min night and day on these sites to keep them updated with the most accurate information alll for you hobbiest....please please go to our websites...espcially when it comes to me, im always putting up other information that you need to know in the first place...i need to figure out why my blogs arent pulling up also...but just a little tid bit about this statment...is all...

  9. #24
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    This is what it all boils down to...and without breaking any kind of confidentiality agreements or word that i have given within this community...BOTH PROVIDERS AND HOBBIEST ALIKE REALY DO NEED TO TAKE CLOSE NOTICE AND START PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IM TRYING TO TELL YALL...OR JUST GET OUT OF IT BEFORE ANY REPERRCUSTIONS (sp?) are felt! meaning, if you can not adapt to doing things in the ways that now HAVE TO BE DONE...instead of costing yourselves along with your fellow hobbiest and us providers..just get out of it while you can...ITS SIMPLE WE ALL HAVE NO CHOICE ANYMORE...WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IN ORDER FOR US TO SURVIVE!
    meaning these stories on selling references...no no no no no....
    these fake referrences that dishonest hobbiest like giving to us.... no no no no no...
    this NOT WORKING TOGETHER RO SAVE ALL OF OUR ASSES...THESE PPL...YOU ARE VERY LITERALLY AND IM SAYING BLUNTLY...THROWNING EVERY ONE OF US, UNDER THE FREAKING BUS. i catch one person doing these dishononable things, im gonna have somoenes ass...personally lol...
    on the real ok...seriously speaking here....

    For The Providers....
    because of the way i screen, im gonna warn all of you...expecially those providers, that are ONLY GOING BY REFERNCES, or just going by a linkedin or getting a drivers license, by doing these kinds of LIGHT SCREENINGS.....bluntly stated...sorry girls...literally the way things have been going....your gonna end up getting your asses busted!!!!!!!!!! and i dont want to see that.
    i have done so many screenings, that i know EXACTLY HOW LONG IT SHOULD TAKE ME to get through, pretty much to the exact minute...i know the pattens that these screenings should go in...i know that even though the many variable that are involved with these , theres also a pattern they have...its been ONLY BY NOT BUDGING OR GIVING SPECIAL TREATMENT ON HOW I SCREEN EVRYONE ....PERSONALLY AND HOBBY ALIKE....that my ass has NOT been busted...they are looking for any slip ups...

    there is NO ROOM FOR ANY KIND OF SLIP UPS!!!!

    For you hobbiest...
    me personally speaking to every last one of you on this board...very sincerely and very seriously...
    within the last 2 to 3 weeks alone, the happeings ive noticed going on around me...(not speaking about my place, i feel i need to specifiy) the kinds of screenings that i have came acroos, there's different things that i've been picking up...for me, theres even (for lack of better words) a taste in the air...i know thats weird...but thats the only way i describe, i just got a differnt feeling/vibe...as im taking notice of EVERYTHING around me....

    shit has gotten thick...and very honestly, ifn order for me to keep my word of honor that i have given everyone, the kind of screening that i do...im now finally speaking out on here about it..finally....this pretty much, it has to be adapt in order to over come
    the men need to understand and accpet this kind of screenings
    as well as the providers we all need to make sure we all are doing VERY THOROUGH SCREENINGS!!!

    espcecially for me, i know when yall are lieing to me...i admit right now, i got through the whole kit and kaboodle process and going farther, so i can prove it...but i already know when im being lied to. just fyi for yall...so for me...one lie, one feeling, one very small detail of anything different

    its a no go! end of subject...
    by doing it this waqy, im doing my part on making sure i keep to my word.
    please think very long and hard on the things that taken my time out to explain in full detail...trying to help to fully underaand things. all of us...
    yall have a great night...
    much love!!!

  10. #25
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Wow, that's a lot of writing, and reading, girly! Even for me!

    But, no, seriously, there's a good bit of meandering and circuitous postulation. Certain things I would agree with but a large majority is also hyperbolic speculation; similar, for example, to the Jan 1st hysteria that was caused by sesta/fosta. I tried back then to explain that it was a tad extreme and overblown and look what happened. IJS

    I appreciate that you took the time to write all of this up, sharing your ideas, and in fact I don't disagree with certain parts, but I think you shouldn't worry quite as much as is coming through in these posts.

    -mg

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by typhoon663 View Post
    To just further the discussion, here's the law in Texas:
    (a) A person commits an offense if, in return for receipt of a fee, the person knowingly:

    Offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct; or
    Solicits another in a public place to engage with the actor in a sexual conduct for hire.

    (b) A person commits an offense if, based on the payment of a fee by the actor or another person on behalf of the actor, the person knowingly:

    Offers to engage, agrees to engage, or engages in sexual conduct; or
    Solicits another in a public place to engage with the actor in sexual conduct for hire.

    An offense is established under Subsection (a) regardless of whether the actor is offered or actually receives the fee. An offense is established under Subsection (b) regardless of whether the actor or another person on behalf of the actor offers or actually pays the fee.
    Nice addition Typhoon. The interesting thing about this, which tends to further prove my original point, is that subsection b) of your quote means that pornography is technically prostitution. Indeed, there has been voluminous debate and appeals about that in our courts over the decades.

    However, realize that federal law is typically going to supercede most state laws on prostitution. We also have to look at various federal, district, or supreme court precedent setting rulings.

    Pornography by the strictest definition of many states and federal law is "technically" a form of prostitution, but legal precedent has basically made it an acceptable and ignorable offense. It's "similar" to what has happened with cannabis in recent years. Cannabis is still, even now, a Schedule 1 drug, but is all but decriminalized at this point. Schedule 1 is the DEA ranking for only a few drugs, drugs that are *highly* addictive, extremely deadly, and have no known pharmacological uses. No doctor can prescribe these drugs for any reason, and no pharmacy may contain them. That list is very small: MDMA/ecstacy, methamphetamine, heroin, crack, and cannabis. However, that's not true of cannabis any longer even though it's still very much listed as a Schedule 1 on the DEA controlled substance list.

    -MG

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  13. #28
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    Thumbs up OMG YES

    Quote Originally Posted by Universal View Post
    Explain your logic to corrupt cops when they arrest ladies


    LOL



  14. #29
    Verified Hobbyist BCD mathguy's Avatar
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    Right, that's true girls. I don't disagree if you read my post. But to be fair a cop can arrest you for anything and you cannot "explain" why they are wrong, or your logic at *that point*.

    Resisting arrest is a road to something worse than what you were being charged with. That's not exclusive to prostitution though, which is mainly what I was trying to say in my second reply about this issue.

    I get it though... Universal was likely just being funny anyway, as she often makes funny jokes or pokes fun and posts funny images I got a laugh out of it too . Point was though if you are getting arrested then yeah it doesn't matter what it's for at that moment. It could be excessive speeding, drunk driving, shoplifting, suspected drugs, or prostitution. Yeah you are fucked for the moment and going to be arrested (but that's not unique to prostitution and doesn't mean you're ultimately guilty). But I totally get your point. Yes, it sucks. :/

    -MG

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathguy View Post

    However, realize that federal law is typically going to supercede most state laws on prostitution. We also have to look at various federal, district, or supreme court precedent setting rulings.

    -MG
    Really, the only federal laws related to this subject deal with human trafficking across state lines, and child pornography. Prostitution and promotion of obscenity are typically state law-controlled. Practically speaking, most prostitution cases around here come from two sources: vice doing sting operations (renting a motel room, enticing johns, or responding to craigslist-type ads (after FOSTA) and setting the provider up, trying to get them to speak the magic words...), or responding to "citizen complaints." For providers, this means your nosy neighbors can snitch on you; it also means you advertise on "public" sites (like AS, for example) at your own risk. It would take a bit more time, effort, deception and sophistication on the part of LE to actually join this site or eccie and create an account, just to try to set up providers. I'm not thinking the cops are that motivated, but I could certainly be wrong. Anyhow, the point I was trying to make is that, for both providers and hobbyists, sites like this one are the best insurance against getting popped by LE. You still need to be careful, do your research, and screen out anyone who feels off, like Ms.Rogue says, but it's much much better than relying on the general internet to find what you're looking for.
    Last edited by typhoon663; 04-19-2019 at 09:01 AM.

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